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Discussion Starter #1
Litre bikes seem to have the same development cycle of PC's. Every 2 years the new model makes the old obsolete. The magazines are all getting their hands on the new 100's from Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha. Dyno results are all 130+ with projected performance numbers showing LOW 10 second quarter mile times and top speed pushing 180. Has anyone sat back and thought about this? For under 11K you can get performance that was unimaginable for a race bike 10 years ago. But, here's the catch these things are legal to ride on the street! How much further will this go before the safety Nazi's or worse the government put the kibosh on our fun little sport?

The story goes that when the first ZX10 came out years ago I think Muzzy bought one and crated it up because at that time he thought that was it. Nothing faster would be made. Here we are in ;04 and a good 600 dould give that bike a run for it money.

WHere do we go from here. What will sport bikes / riding look like in 5 years??
 

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I think we are in bad shape now. With all these "sportbike" movies coming out, more idiots are getting into it. That means more unexperienced people riding and wrecking, and getting killed. I would imagine this also means more people will think it's cool to run from the cops. Even now, cops know that they can't catch a sportbike on the street, and they don't like that one bit. I think that if chases and accidents go up over the next few years, we will see some government intervention:2cents:
 

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Excellent Points

snickerz and Tippmann.......Excellent points and observations.

The One D Ten T Syndrome (I-d-io-t) Idiot.

There appears to be an epidemic of this syndrome loose today.....movies, squids, politicians. lawyers, the holier than thou's, entertainers.............it's so common place it presumes to be nornmal.

My $.02
 

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Personally, I think we are going to see the HP level off, and or drop..why ? because of the speeds these bikes can reach already, I'm sure at some point the gov't..is gonna step in and say..we have to amny accidents..or whatever excuse they wanna use to slow bike down, and lets face it..do you really want to see a 200 mph OEM bike..? Think about it, a new rider could go into a dealer...buy one, and days later be in a grave..

If you insist on a 200 mph. bike, then build one...

As for looks...I think bikes are gonna get so stealthy looking, that they won't resemble anything of today's bike, except for the wheels..:rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Does anyone think these things are getting to damn uncomfortable for the street. You know things are getting a little weird when the Gixxer is rated the most comfortable bike in the class. According to conventional thinking my 01 ZX9 is a cross country touring bike compared to the latest crop.

Here is my wish list for the next generation of open classers.

1. Adjustable clip ons. 5 minure no tool switch. Raised for regular riding, dropped for aggressive riding and / or track days

2. Same adjustability for rear sets

3. Multiple maps to select from a screen on the spedo. Several tunes from low to mid rance grunt for street ridding to max rpm punch for track days.

The technology is there to provide this. Will the OEM's think ahead enough to bring it to market.

Anyone else like this idea??
 

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snickerz when you say "--when the Gixxer is rated the most comfortable bike in the class---" I must ask if you are really saying "comfortable" in the form it is described in the dictionary or is this another way of saying "shit" & meaning very good or whatever the slang is of the young people these days? Could it be that you are going by the writing on one person that tested the bike & not the majority?

If you want true comfort from a sportbike then may I suggest you check out a Honda 929 or 954 for if(?) you are at home on a sportbike you will find a dramatic difference in the above two bikes compared to a Suzy GSXR which has the clipons very low & so far forward while the footrests are up so much higher the footrest position did not bother me, but I found it a strain to be riding the bike in town or on the hwy & come upon traffic for there was a continual strain to my neck to be able to see said traffic. That is the reason I gave up a GSXR so I could own/ride a 929 with its more sensible riding position. The Honda 929 & 954 ARE without question looked upon as being very comfortable bikes for long runs on the hwys by so many owners over bikes they have owned previously.

As for all the tricky quick changes sure I guess they could be offered IF(?) we want to pay for them. In my case it would be NO for I picked the 929 for its comfort in riding position & not in roadracing form.
 

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Harley Davidson will eventually put enough money in some politician's pocket that they will push thru a bill in Congress to limit horsepower on sportbikes to not more than 63 horsepower. That way, Harley can build a sportbike that might compete with the rest of the manufacturers.

Of course, the bill will also create a rule that all bikes must prematurely fail from parts vibrating off, oil leaking or cam bearing failure.

:p
 

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Some intresting points brought up here.First the bigger faster trend is going on all across motorcycling,look at the current trend in the cruisers,2000 cc Vulcan,1700cc Yamaha,2300cc triumph.These machines are big(huge)Most over 750lb and don't handel or stop as well as our sportbikes,yet they all have around 100 or more horsepower,and the manufactures can't make em fast enough.The current generation of liter bikes are directly tied to the raceing programs,thus the small size(most fit into the shadow of a 600) and some what uncomfortable(for us 6 foot and over people) seating/ peg arrangement.I think as far as the HP numbers if the insurance and safety Nazi's get thier way we may see HP limits like those in parts of Europe.
I feel too many people are hooked into stat sheets,lets face it 90% of the people riding these machines will never get anywhere close to using the potential of them,yeah I can already hear the argument well its there if I want it.Fine but at what point is it excessive?190hp?200hp?250hp?My answer to this argument is these are being made and sold to the masses,perhaps a little common sense needs to be used by all,other wise we may get specs rammed down our throats by the gov.:2cents:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Smitty said:
snickerz when you say "--when the Gixxer is rated the most comfortable bike in the class---" I must ask if you are really saying "comfortable" in the form it is described in the dictionary or is this another way of saying "shit" & meaning very good or whatever the slang is of the young people these days? Could it be that you are going by the writing on one person that tested the bike & not the majority?

If you want true comfort from a sportbike then may I suggest you check out a Honda 929 or 954 for if(?) you are at home on a sportbike you will find a dramatic difference in the above two bikes compared to a Suzy GSXR which has the clipons very low & so far forward while the footrests are up so much higher the footrest position did not bother me, but I found it a strain to be riding the bike in town or on the hwy & come upon traffic for there was a continual strain to my neck to be able to see said traffic. That is the reason I gave up a GSXR so I could own/ride a 929 with its more sensible riding position. The Honda 929 & 954 ARE without question looked upon as being very comfortable bikes for long runs on the hwys by so many owners over bikes they have owned previously.

As for all the tricky quick changes sure I guess they could be offered IF(?) we want to pay for them. In my case it would be NO for I picked the 929 for its comfort in riding position & not in roadracing form.
Smitty,

My point in making that statement was that the mags are calling the Suzuki the bike with the least agressive riding position. Just a few years ago all gixxers were refered to as "racks" I guess the point of my initial question is the bikes are becomming more and more track focused. WIll they eventually bee too radical for the street?
 

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can't stand the heat, get out the kitchen

Let's see...i saw a few commercials today showing a pick-up truck with 500hp, a full size suv with 300+hp, and a family sedan with 300+hp. If they regulate hp for bikes, they need to do it for cars too! And i don't see that happening any time soon.

Great thing about the U.S. of A is that we have a choice to build or buy fast. I ride a '98 CBR900rr and it's by no means obsolete. Whether you're on a 135hp bike or a 105hp bike, a not so smart rider will crash and has no business on a bike.

To the man who said GSX-r was voted most comfy...? What mag are you reading? Sorry, first I've ever heard of this.

Hope this doesn't offend anyone. Sorry if it did:D
 

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Hammer 4 said:
because of the speeds these bikes can reach already, I'm sure at some point the gov't..is gonna step in and say..we have to amny accidents..or whatever excuse they wanna use to slow bike down, and lets face it..do you really want to see a 200 mph OEM bike..?
<SNIP>
Back in reality, perhaps permanent revocation of license is in order in a wider variety of cases, followed by jail terms. Perhaps more stringent licensing tests. Perhaps the license grading levels required in Europe make sense. Maybe they'll (the gov't) start attaching computer monitors to all bikes that will keep track of speeds we drive and check the stats anually or at crashes. Or, maybe insurers will simply stop insuring, or charge so ludicrously much that only NBA stars with no experience and no common sense will own these bikes; statistics will catch up to all of us eventually. Or maybe a bunch of you are right, and HP limiters will come into existence. Who can estimate what the bribed officials of the US will do? Only those on the paying end.
 

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While I'm not sure if the horsepower wars will stop anytime soon, I would like to see the manufacturers devote as much attention to the suspension, braking, and overall weight characteristics rather than the output of the engine...the horsepower's there, let's make them handle better! :thumbs2:

And I agree w/ snickerz, the display should have many more functions and accuracy too, the technology is there, let's take advantage of it. :thumb:
 

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Re: can't stand the heat, get out the kitchen

Ebola6 said:
Let's see...i saw a few commercials today showing a pick-up truck with 500hp, a full size suv with 300+hp, and a family sedan with 300+hp. If they regulate hp for bikes, they need to do it for cars too! And i don't see that happening any time soon.

Great thing about the U.S. of A is that we have a choice to build or buy fast. I ride a '98 CBR900rr and it's by no means obsolete. Whether you're on a 135hp bike or a 105hp bike, a not so smart rider will crash and has no business on a bike.

To the man who said GSX-r was voted most comfy...? What mag are you reading? Sorry, first I've ever heard of this.

Hope this doesn't offend anyone. Sorry if it did:D
Correct me if I am wrong, as this information came from someone who was notorious for being full of shit, but isn't their some kind of hp to weight ratio that must be met, for cars at least? I was told that that is why the RX7 is not sold in the US anymore, because of it's ungodly hp to weight ratio. Again, this could be bunk info, anyone know for sure?

If it is true, is there a similar requirement for bikes?

Just wondering. Of the two bikes I've owned, I couldn't even see me using 100% of the 600 I had, much less coming even close to using the power of the XX. After the XX was totaled, my wife and I shared the 600, and I actually had more fun on it than the XX. The Blackbird was great for straight-line-pull-your-arms-out-of-socket-accelleration, but the F4 was just all around fun. I would guess it's hp numbers to be somewhere in the mid to low 90's, though I never had it dyno'd. Even with my big fat arse it was a hell of a lot of fun. I really can't imagine one of the newer liter bikes with similar weight to the 600's and 150+ ponies. :eek:
 

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Re: can't stand the heat, get out the kitchen

Ebola6 said:
Let's see...i saw a few commercials today showing a pick-up truck with 500hp, a full size suv with 300+hp, and a family sedan with 300+hp. If they regulate hp for bikes, they need to do it for cars too! And i don't see that happening any time soon.

Great thing about the U.S. of A is that we have a choice to build or buy fast. I ride a '98 CBR900rr and it's by no means obsolete. Whether you're on a 135hp bike or a 105hp bike, a not so smart rider will crash and has no business on a bike.

To the man who said GSX-r was voted most comfy...? What mag are you reading? Sorry, first I've ever heard of this.

Hope this doesn't offend anyone. Sorry if it did:D
Correct me if I am wrong, as this information came from someone who was notorious for being full of shit, but isn't their some kind of hp to weight ratio that must be met, for cars at least? I was told that that is why the RX7 is not sold in the US anymore, because of it's ungodly hp to weight ratio. Again, this could be bunk info, anyone know for sure?

If it is true, is there a similar requirement for bikes?

Just wondering. Of the two bikes I've owned, I couldn't even see me using 100% of the 600 I had, much less coming even close to using the power of the XX. After the XX was totaled, my wife and I shared the 600, and I actually had more fun on it than the XX. The Blackbird was great for straight-line-pull-your-arms-out-of-socket-accelleration, but the F4 was just all around fun. I would guess it's hp numbers to be somewhere in the mid to low 90's, though I never had it dyno'd. Even with my big fat arse it was a hell of a lot of fun. I really can't imagine one of the newer liter bikes with similar weight to the 600's and 150+ ponies. :eek:
 

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Re: can't stand the heat, get out the kitchen

Ebola6 said:
Let's see...i saw a few commercials today showing a pick-up truck with 500hp, a full size suv with 300+hp, and a family sedan with 300+hp. If they regulate hp for bikes, they need to do it for cars too!
i'm sorry to tel you but this isn't going to happen anytime soon nor is it a practical arguement. Horse power rating s on vehicles outside of motorcycles are based on a moving the vehicles weight and increase performance. on top of that, when it comes to trucks (and there's nothing "S" in an SUV) there is also a necessity for additional hp especially considering they are designed for loads and towing capacity.

sorry dude, but your cup has holes in it. your arguement holds no water.

besides, a 300 pound bike with 150 horse power is like a 600 pound car with 300 horse power but most cars weigh 1500 pounds so...you do the math.
 

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Re: Re: can't stand the heat, get out the kitchen

monkey said:

besides, a 300 pound bike with 150 horse power is like a 600 pound car with 300 horse power but most cars weigh 1500 pounds so...you do the math.
wow....i think in japan there is a gentlemens agreement among the major automakers that their street cars wont be over 300 hp? im probally wrong
 

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Re: Re: Re: can't stand the heat, get out the kitchen

AudioSolstice said:
wow....i think in japan there is a gentlemens agreement among the major automakers that their street cars wont be over 300 hp? im probally wrong
Nissan makes a car, I forgot the name but it is something like "Skyline", that does not sell here but it does in Japan, and from what my Nissan parts guys have told me, it has way over 300 hp and smokes almost anything on the road in the U.S..

If you look at Harley, they don't even try to compete for horsepower, and they sell all the bikes they can make. So market demand is not just for horsepower, and it could be argued that horsepower is down the list from aesthetics as far as what buyers want in the U.S.
 

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fuster said:
So market demand is not just for horsepower, and it could be argued that horsepower is down the list from aesthetics as far as what buyers want in the U.S.
That's a great point. Look at all the "first bike" threads that have a strong tinge of "I don't like how it looks".

But, one issue is that if a bike has the "fastest on the road" mantra (like I perceive in 1k GSXR's), then it will get bought by the drones (aka teenagers/young adults), but less frequently by the older enthusiasts, strictly for that reason, especially by those interested in street racing.

And, from a manufacturer viewpoint, why stop when there's money to be taken from the less experienced and less knowledgeable? They do carry bikes that we like sufficiently to purchase, right? So, they cover both audiences.

I guess I see no reason they would end the spiraling up of bike power until government intervention or public opinion steps in sufficiently to cause ethical considerations to be taken into account.
 

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Horsepower, from my viewpoint, and the "fastest on the planet" thing, are just market niches. There are enough buyers so they use it to sell product. Most folks are not of that ilk, however. Many actually fear the horsepower of some bikes, so they go for Harley or a less powerful bike of another manufacturer instead because they know they won't have too much to handle. Otherwise, I would think there would be a whole lot more V-Maxes on the road.
 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: can't stand the heat, get out the kitchen

fuster said:
Nissan makes a car, I forgot the name but it is something like "Skyline", that does not sell here but it does in Japan, and from what my Nissan parts guys have told me, it has way over 300 hp and smokes almost anything on the road in the U.S..

If you look at Harley, they don't even try to compete for horsepower, and they sell all the bikes they can make. So market demand is not just for horsepower, and it could be argued that horsepower is down the list from aesthetics as far as what buyers want in the U.S.
yeah thats exactally what im talkkng about.....thats its a certain horsepower under a gentlemens agreement but the skyline's numbers are fudged so that way it falls around the agreement...i wish i knew where the article was to post it
 
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