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Discussion Starter #1
What octane do I need to use on my beloved 2 wheeler?
The manual says at least 87 (R+M/2).
Kawi's website says the bike has some kind of correction whatnot to eliminate pre-ignition.
 

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Not another freggin octane thread :eek:

The Low-Down on High Octane Gasoline
From the Federal Trade Commission
September 1997

Are you tempted to buy a high-octane gasoline for your car because you want to improve its performance? If so, take note: the recommended gasoline for most cars is regular octane. In fact, in most cases, using a higher-octane gasoline than your owner’s manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It won’t make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner. Your best bet: listen to your owner’s manual.

The only time you might need to switch to a higher-octane level is if your car engine knocks when you use the recommended fuel. This happens to a small percentage of cars.

Unless your engine is knocking, buying higher-octane gasoline is a waste of money, too. Premium gas costs 15 to 20 cents per gallon more than regular. That can add up to $100 or more a year in extra costs. Studies indicate that altogether, drivers may be spending hundreds of millions of dollars each year for higher octane gas than they need.

What are octane ratings?
Octane ratings measure a gasoline’s ability to resist engine knock, a rattling or pinging sound that results from premature ignition of the compressed fuel-air mixture in one or more cylinders. Most gas stations offer three octane grades: regular (usually 87 octane), mid-grade (usually 89 octane) and premium (usually 92 or 93). The ratings must be posted on bright yellow stickers on each gasoline pump.

What’s the right octane level for your car?
Check your owner’s manual to determine the right octane level for your car. Regular octane is recommended for most cars. However, some cars with high compression engines, like sports cars and certain luxury cars, need mid-grade or premium gasoline to prevent knock.

How can you tell if you’re using the right octane level?
Listen to your car’s engine. If it doesn’t knock when you use the recommended octane, you’re using the right grade of gasoline.

Will higher octane gasoline clean your engine better?
As a rule, high-octane gasoline does not outperform regular octane in preventing engine deposits from forming, in removing them, or in cleaning your car’s engine. In fact, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency requires that all octane grades of all brands of gasoline contain engine cleaning detergent additives to protect against the build-up of harmful levels of engine deposits during the expected life of your car.

Should you ever switch to a higher octane gasoline?
A few car engines may knock or ping — even if you use the recommended octane. If this happens, try switching to the next highest-octane grade. In many cases, switching to the mid-grade or premium-grade gasoline will eliminate the knock. If the knocking or pinging continues after one or two fill-ups, you may need a tune-up or some other repair. After that work is done, go back to the lowest octane grade at which your engine runs without knocking.

Is knocking harmful?
Occasional light knocking or pinging won’t harm your engine, and doesn’t indicate a need for higher octane. But don’t ignore severe knocking. A heavy or persistent knock can lead to engine damage.

Is all "premium" or "regular" gasoline the same?
The octane rating of gasoline marked "premium" or "regular" is not consistent across the country. One state may require a minimum octane rating of 92 for all premium gasoline, while another may allow 90 octane to be called premium. To make sure you know what you’re buying, check the octane rating on the yellow sticker on the gas pump instead of relying on the name "premium" or "regular."

For More Information:

You can file a complaint with the FTC by contacting the Consumer Response Center by phone: toll-free 1-877-FTC-HELP (382-4357); TDD: 202-326-2502; by mail: Consumer Response Center, Federal Trade Commission, 600 Pennsylvania Ave, NW, Washington, DC 20580; or through the Internet, using the online complaint form. Although the Commission cannot resolve individual problems for consumers, it can act against a company if it sees a pattern of possible law violations. The FTC publishes free brochures on many consumer issues. For a complete list of publications, write for Best Sellers, Consumer Response Center, Federal Trade Commission, 600 Pennsylvania Ave, NW, Washington, DC 20580; or call toll-free 1-877-FTC-HELP (382-4357), TDD 202-326-2502.
 

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Crescent Fresh said:
What octane do I need to use on my beloved 2 wheeler?
The manual says at least 87 (R+M/2).
Kawi's website says the bike has some kind of correction whatnot to eliminate pre-ignition.


If the manual says 87, then use 87.

To translate the previous post in one sentence - Octane rating is a measure of a fuel's RESISTANCE to detonating.

Do you really think that putting a fuel in that's harder to burn helps performance?

Scott :)
 

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Re: Re: What octane to use

Scotteq said:


Do you really think that putting a fuel in that's harder to burn helps performance?

Scott :)
In a word, yes. Detonation screws up your timing. Since motorcycles have such high compression ratios they usually required higher octane gas. My car has 11.0:1 and it recommends 91 octane.
 

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when they say a few percentage of cars...they should have said all dodge rams with the 5.2 or 5.9 v-8's
i have one and i know people who have them.....they all ping when running 87 and moderate air temps
 

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never2old is correct-- ANOTHER octaine rating thread. Do all the new riders or those new on the board have to bring this up?

I have a '97 Yamaha YZF600r & a '00 Honda 929 with Owner's Manuals saying "86 or up" & the same with a GSXR-750 few yrs ago.

I have gone to the highest & simply no gain in fuel milage, no gain in power, no gain in cooling, etc. In 57 yrs of continual riding 87 has been what I have used & none of my power-plants have suffered & none gained with high octaine ratings.

Go by the Owner's Manual of the m/c you own, but if you have an ear for the knocking then go up if you so wish.
 

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AudioSolstice said:
when they say a few percentage of cars...they should have said all dodge rams with the 5.2 or 5.9 v-8's
i have one and i know people who have them.....they all ping when running 87 and moderate air temps
I have a 2.0 and I have to run 91 at least. I run 93 though.
 

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AudioSolstice said:
when they say a few percentage of cars...they should have said all dodge rams with the 5.2 or 5.9 v-8's
i have one and i know people who have them.....they all ping when running 87 and moderate air temps
If you have a Dodge with either of these engines and they ping on 87 octane, you may want to look into TSB 09-05-00 which addresses an intake manifold leak. My 5.9 equipped Durango was leaking and pinging like a bastard. Pretty easy to fix.



In a word, yes. Detonation screws up your timing. Since motorcycles have such high compression ratios they usually required higher octane gas. My car has 11.0:1 and it recommends 91 octane.
Motorcycles with high compression engines may be able to run fine with low octane fuel because the timing is not advanced much. Timing gets advanced becuase fuel burns at the same rate regardless of engine speed. Excessive advance creates a longer duty cycle which gives less time for the combustion chamber to cool between strokes. This, in turn, makes the combustion chamber hotter and that leads to pinging. At higher engine speeds it's necessary to start the fuel burning sooner (advance) in order to reach peak combustion chamber pressure at the time when the piston has the most leverage on the crankshaft. Before the pressure can build in the downward direction, the flame front of the burning fuel and air has to travel fully accross the top of the piston. A smaller bore engine has a shorter distance for the flame front to traverse so it can get by with less advance at any given engine speed than a larger bore engine. My point is that compression ratio is not the only factor. One of my bikes has 10.5:1 CR and runs fine on 87 octane.

Run whatever octane the manual recommends and no more. In addition to being a waste of money, the octane boosting additives in higher octane fuel leave nasty deposits on the intake valves. Techron gets rid of those deposits quiet nicely, BTW.
 

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Re: Re: Re: What octane to use

BlacktypeS said:
In a word, yes. Detonation screws up your timing. Since motorcycles have such high compression ratios they usually required higher octane gas. My car has 11.0:1 and it recommends 91 octane.

Which is NOT my point at all.


If the owner's manual says 87, then you should run 87. Not 91, 94, or 104 leaded avgas. There's no reason anyone should run higher octane because it does nothing for you except lighten your wallet.

Higher octane fuels are required in higher performance engines because, in the quest for more power, compression, and (especially) ignition timing would cause excessive detonation. That's the only reason to run a "higher" grade fuel.


Oxygenated stuff like Nutec is a slightly different story, but you have to get that through a specialty shop for $15~60 a gallon.

SCott ;)
 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: What octane to use

Scotteq said:

If the owner's manual says 87, then you should run 87. Not 91, 94, or 104 leaded avgas. There's no reason anyone should run higher octane because it does nothing for you except lighten your wallet.

Higher octane fuels are required in higher performance engines because, in the quest for more power, compression, and (especially) ignition timing would cause excessive detonation. That's the only reason to run a "higher" grade fuel.
If you are referring to me b/c I use nothing but 93 in my car I have a reprogrammed ECU that has advanced the timing.
 

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Smitty said:
never2old is correct-- ANOTHER octaine rating thread. Do all the new riders or those new on the board have to bring this up?
It could be worse, Smitty. He could've asked what liter bike was best for him to begin on :rolleyes: That's the ultimate in annoying, since it's a daily thread.

Honestly, I haven't seen an octane thread in quite a while, but maybe I've been subconciously filtering them.
 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What octane to use

BlacktypeS said:
If you are referring to me b/c I use nothing but 93 in my car I have a reprogrammed ECU that has advanced the timing.

So you screwed with your motor and created the need. Therefore your need for premium gas is purely *your* fault. :D

Anybody could advance the ignition or install high compression pistons and 60mm Throttle Bodies and create the need to race gas.

Crescent Fresh said nothing about mods. Therefore the answer is to use whatever the owner's manual says because going higher gains you nothing except a lighter wallet. You remember him don'cha? He's the guy that originally posted "What should I use." You know, the guy we're trying to help???

My bike takes premium or it pings under high loads when hot. But that doesn't help Crescent Fresh now, does it??? I could have also talked about how Nutec gives you 2~4 free HP, more if you advance the ignition some, but that doesn't mean sh*t to Crescent Fresh. Because he's not running on the track, nor is he racing his bike.

All I was trying to do is answer the original question as correctly as I know how.

Regards,

Scott :)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks, Scott.
I have another question. Will I hear knocking with a full face helmet?
I have went through 3 tanks of 87 now with no unusual sounds at idle and revving to about 6K, but I'm not allowed to ride without a helmet.....
 

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Yes you will hear it through a full face helmet as all of us wear. Still there is your proof with no knocking in using three tanks of fuel yet the money OVER for higher octane was money to the fuel firms.

It is what your Owner's Manual says that should be what establishes the fuel you use.
 

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Crescent Fresh said:
Thanks, Scott.
I have another question. Will I hear knocking with a full face helmet?
I have went through 3 tanks of 87 now with no unusual sounds at idle and revving to about 6K, but I'm not allowed to ride without a helmet.....

Yes, you'd hear it... I wouldn't worry.

Scott ;)
 

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Another thing is if you do start to hear pinging its ok to run it like that for a little bit, i know people that freak out and shut the bike down because they are scared of wrecking the engine, they are right but it takes a bit for anything major to go wrong with the engine with a slight ping, so if all else fails and you have half a tank of regular gas go fill the other half with a higher grade and your problems will be gone, more then likely.
 
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