Sportbike World banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I've read a few of the posts about different gasoline octanes. I know it's slower burning blah blah blah. Are any of the claims about engine protection true. Seems like more power with lower octane but is it any harder on my engine. One of the boys at the LBS has done a bunch of dyno tests with differing octanes. From the low end stuff up to race gas, nada, no difference. So as long as it isn't nocking is it a waste of money to buy anything more expensive.

------------------
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
snyder,

That's always been my opinion and understanding based on the most reliable information I've seen, but whenever I post that the majority comes back and says "it's cheap insurance" to pay for premium. To me even something that costs two cents isn't cheap if you're getting nothing for your money except ripped off.

One of the mags, I think it was Sportrider, tested a batch of the racing fuels and although a couple gave good results, the majority gave no significant improvement. And we're talking the $25-a-gallon stuff.

------------------
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,429 Posts
Black helicopters from the petrolium industry will soon be following you, watch your back!

------------------
'98 Superhawk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,322 Posts
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Aril, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by snyder:
I know it's slower burning blah blah blah...So as long as it isn't nocking is it a waste of money to buy anything more expensive.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely NOT!!! Slower burning equals, if nothing else, a cooler running engine. The cooler your engine runs, the longer it lasts, and the more efficient it is.

When you use, say, 87-89 oct. gas in a 11:1 comp. ratio motorcycle, the fuel is burned before the completion of the combustion stroke. This means that there is nothing but flame for the rest of the stroke, which creates heat even more extreme than normal in your engine's combustion chamber. This causes EVERYTHING important to wear much faster than normal. I don't know about power gains, but premium fuel is worth it because it prevents, to a certain extent, heat damage and premature wear that comes along with it.

------------------
~Nick
2000 CBR600F4 -
Lost to the Blacktop God. 4,699 miles in under 3 mos. $8,300 worth of damage to my one and only baby. On the brighter side: Can you say 929rr???

[This message has been edited by CBR Brutha (edited September 06, 2000).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Aril, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CBR Brutha:

When you use, say, 87-89 oct. gas in a 11:1 comp. ratio motorcycle, the fuel is burned before the completion of the combustion stroke. This means that there is nothing but flame for the rest of the stroke, which creates heat even more extreme than normal in your engine's combustion chamber.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If the fuel is all burned before the completion of the combustion stroke, then where's the flame you're talking about coming from? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, just trying to understand what you're saying.


------------------
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,474 Posts
Oh I'm in the wrong place. When I saw the title of the Topic I thought this was a Kawasaki/Ducati comparison discussion. :rolleyes: :p :D

On subject though. I just do what the manual and that stupid looking sticker on the tank say. ;) What's the easiest way to remove that sticker?

------------------
John

"If Harley made an airplane... would you fly in it?"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,429 Posts
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Aril, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RCjohn:
I just do what the manual and that stupid looking sticker on the tank say. ;) What's the easiest way to remove that sticker?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That sticker will come right off with some 110 octane aviation fuel. Put the rest in your tank, your bike will last forever!


------------------
'98 Superhawk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
292 Posts
Use AT LEAST what the manufacturer recommends! Anything lower and you risk detonation and that will severely shorten the life of your motor. Anything higher will only give you peace of mind that you have a larger "octane" buffer from detonation. Trust me, detonation is REALLY BAD for a high strung engine like a sportbike. You can burn a hole through those low-melting-point aluminum pistons pretty damn quick if it's bad enough.

Turbo people like to seek out the highest octane they can find because they can adjust their boost to whatever the fuel can handle. I know the Diamond Star owners can run about 15-17 PSI on Super Unleaded but as high as 21 PSI on racing gas. That makes a signifigant difference.

------------------
"You must be fast 'cuz I was haulin' ass when I passed you"

1999 Blue/White YZF-R1: 2 Bros. C4 exhaust, Dynojet jet kit, timing tricker, dyno-tuned by Graves
2000 NBM/Lt Oak int/Blk top C5 Convertible - MN6, Z51, Vortex Rammer, A&A Exhaust, C/R X-pipe, Corsa tips, !CAGS
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
192 Posts
I am not sure it is a complete waste of money. As noted by others, use gasoline that is high enough in octane to prevent detonation. I have an air cooled motor, which by its nature has a somewhat lower compression ratio than a water cooled one, so Kawasaki say use 89 octane fuel. And I do. That equals the mid-grade plus around my area, as Regular is marked 87 octane.

So far running on this grade I haven't had any early detonation problems and the bike is running well. If it ain't broke...




------------------
Richard M. Poniarski
'00 Kawasaki ZR-7
AMA #674623
NY S666C
ZR7OA #3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Can you assume if you hear no knocking you have no detonation? We all want our bikes to last forever, I'm just trying to get my facts straight.

------------------
 
G

·
John, what Tristan meant to say was: after your bike has been sitting in the sun a while, the sticker should just peel right off, using your fingernail. You can always warm it up with a blow dryer, but no matter what anyone else says, I have seen a blow dryer throw sparks, so I ain't puttin' one near the tank. If any glue remains after you've peeled the sticker, let some Honda Spray and Polish soak on it for a minute and wipe clean. Or use WD40.

------------------
Pete
"Four wheels move the body, two wheels move the soul."

[This message has been edited by Pete (edited September 08, 2000).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
987 Posts
Goodpoint raised by Snyder - Can you assume if you hear no knocking that you have no detonation? The answer is no.
Here's my 2 cents
1) I have never heard of anyone destroying their stock motor by using the wrong fuel. Doesn't mean it's never happened, just that over 20 years meeting thousands of riders, I've never heard of it.
2) The best argument I've heard for using primo is that the slower burn doesn't load your rods quite as much.
The 12 says use at least 90 octane gas. Most midrange gas is 89. Would the extra point make a difference in my motor? Probably not. Will I be experimenting on my motor to see if the previous statement is true? Probably not.

------------------
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,294 Posts
Having read that page and retaining the information
I already have - I agree fully with Mashuri.
Higher octane to avoid detonation. Detonation
is brutal and if bad enough will destroy an
engine in a matter of seconds.

FWIW.

Chris


------------------
"If you spent more time worrying about you I wouldn't have to."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Aril, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by snyder:
So I've read a few of the posts about different gasoline octanes. I know it's slower burning blah blah blah. Are any of the claims about engine protection true. Seems like more power with lower octane but is it any harder on my engine. One of the boys at the LBS has done a bunch of dyno tests with differing octanes. From the low end stuff up to race gas, nada, no difference. So as long as it isn't nocking is it a waste of money to buy anything more expensive.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes. As far as the slower burning makes for a cooler motor... If it isn't air cooled your motor is going to run at whatever the thermostat is rated at. If you're concerned about your motor running cooler, but a lower rated thermostat, that is what they're for. Unless your motor is built or has a turbo, it will not be able to make use of the higher octane.

- Jeff -

------------------

Kahuna's Home Page
ICQ # - 14578052

[This message has been edited by Kahuna (edited September 08, 2000).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Being a pilot, college educated pilot, I spent many class hours going over what fuel can do to an engine.

What causes detonation/knocking? Heat generated inside the engine can cause pre-ignition, before the spark plug fires, due to over compression of the fuel-air mixture. Other causes, you name them, most likely a hotspot on the valve, or a piece of carbon left over from the last firing hot enough to cause the lower octane gasoline to begin combustion.

The pressure wave hitting the piston on the way up, and the valves that are not seated due to timing overlap causes the engine damage.

I am not an engineer, and these are explainations given to me in laymens terms by someone who really knew engines inside and out.

Xert
One of those DSM owners who runs boost.
'00 ZX6R

------------------
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,322 Posts
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Aril, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by motociclista:
If the fuel is all burned before the completion of the combustion stroke, then where's the flame you're talking about coming from? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, just trying to understand what you're saying.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No problem bro. Basically the flame is remaining from the fuel that was burned and hasn't exited the combustion chamber yet because the compression stroke hasn't completed. Once the compression stroke finishes, the exhaust valve opens and the burnt fuel is exhaled from the engine.

Make sense??? I'm trying to explain the best I can...lemme know how that sounds...


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Aril, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by snyder:
Can you assume if you hear no knocking you have no detonation?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

NO!!! With all the noises emitted by a sportbike, you can definitely NOT count on your ears to tell you when your engine is pinging. If you really want to know, you can check your spark plugs and, depending on the color of the electrode, know if you're running correctly or not.

------------------
~Nick
2000 CBR600F4 -
Lost to the Blacktop God. 4,699 miles in under 3 mos. $8,300 worth of damage to my one and only baby. On the brighter side: Can you say 929rr???

[This message has been edited by CBR Brutha (edited September 11, 2000).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,322 Posts
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Aril, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tirefryer:
Don't you mean the power stroke?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope. I work in the automotive industry (Ford Motor Co.) manufacturing high-perf. engines. I can tell you that some people may refer to it as the "power stroke", but the correct term is compression, or combustion stroke.

Power Stroke is also the diesel engine used by ford in their heavy-duty trucks.

------------------
~Nick
2000 CBR600F4 -
Lost to the Blacktop God. 4,699 miles in under 3 mos. $8,300 worth of damage to my one and only baby. On the brighter side: Can you say 929rr???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,322 Posts
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Aril, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kahuna:
As far as the slower burning makes for a cooler motor... If it isn't air cooled your motor is going to run at whatever the thermostat is rated at.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't wanna start an argument here...REALLY. We get enough of those, but this statement isn't true. Working on engines for as long as I have, I know the value of higher octane fuel. BELIEVE ME. Liquid-cooled engines can very well overheat, and with today's sportbike's utilizing aluminum mills, that heat can DESTROY the engine beyond repair. Anything you can do to reduce temps is worth it in my book. This includes running premium fuel, because it does make a difference in the cylinder and on the piston crown; where it's most important.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Aril, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kahuna:
Unless your motor is built or has a turbo, it will not be able to make use of the higher octane.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Any bike with compression above 9.0:1 will benefit from higher octane fuel, with the octane requirements rising as the compression ratio does. Aside from assuring that no knocking/pinging/detonating will occur, it gives slight power boosts in some machines, and also makes the engine run smoother and more efficiently.

------------------
~Nick
2000 CBR600F4 -
Lost to the Blacktop God. 4,699 miles in under 3 mos. $8,300 worth of damage to my one and only baby. On the brighter side: Can you say 929rr???

[This message has been edited by CBR Brutha (edited September 11, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by CBR Brutha (edited September 12, 2000).]
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top