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Discussion Starter #1
I understand that a few bikers are using diesel oil in their bikes successfully.
Just a heads up on using diesel oil in your bikes. Soon the only diesel oil that you can purchase will have the spec CJ-4 on it. This is the new spec for 07 diesels with the new emission equipment called particulate filters for the exhaust. This has a totally different additive package that has not been used up to this point and may not work as well with wet clutches as the older version diesel oils that some of you have been using. If you know of anyone using this new oil let us know how it is working out for them.
 

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Strength and Honor
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Bummer, I was so happy with my Rotella :(
 

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Given the source, and the obscure nature of the warning, excuse me if I'm skeptical
 

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Well, the change to CJ-4 is verifiable and so just waiting for someone to post their findings who I'd recognize as a long-time poster at one of any number of forums will be reasonably good enough for me. Time will tell.
 

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no prob, When I hear an obvious sales guy try to tell me something while pretending not to sell me anything, but just looking out for my best interest because we are such good buds, alarm bells go off.

There is a russian saying, that badly translates to "When you feel your ass being kissed, do not relax. The saliva could be applied for lubrication purposes".
 

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Add me to the list of skeptics. In fact, I've always read that friction modifiers in energy conserving oils may cause clutches to slip, but I've never read of anyone who tried it and had a clutch slip. To me it seems that since the clutch is already bathed in a substance that is slippery enough to allow two metallic surface to rub together at high speeds (i.e. oil, piston, cylinder) reducing the friction a little bit more by changing from standard to energy conserving oil is not going to make any difference. I suppose with enough information - clutch spring rates, coefficients of friction, surface areas - we could calculate whether the difference would be enough to make a clutch slip. My guess is no, but I haven't become curious enough to experiment with my own bike. Anyone out there willing to go for it in the interest of science? Vash? I'll buy the oil.
 

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I'm not worried about the price of oil as much as I worry about the price of a new clutch if I have to replace it. But chances are I wont, also I might have take it out and bathe it in some solvent.

So sure, I'll put my poor abused bike to one more expiriment. What oil is most likely to cause my clutch to slip? And how can we best determine how much the clutch is slipping?
 

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I'm not worried about the price of oil as much as I worry about the price of a new clutch if I have to replace it. But chances are I wont, also I might have take it out and bathe it in some solvent.

So sure, I'll put my poor abused bike to one more expiriment. What oil is most likely to cause my clutch to slip? And how can we best determine how much the clutch is slipping?
My guess is some 5w20 with the starburst seal. It's going to be the thinnest at temp, right? I've never seen an energy conserving oil in a common motorcycle weight though. Most are 5w20, 5w30, and 10w30. My manual specifies 10-20w40-50. Will you see engine issues before clutch issues using a lighter-weight oil? Unless you find a starburst-seal oil in a weight you would actually use in your bike, it seems to be a moot point.

However, if you did carry out the test, I would recommend running the bike on a dyno with your usual oil to establish a rpm vs. speed baseline. Then change the oil and run the same routine to see if the rpm vs. speed differs anywhere. If the clutch is slipping you'll see a lower or erratic speed at any rpm where there is enough torque to overcome the clutch friction. Unless you're now working for an oil company trying to sell a new oil, it's probably not worth your time to even know.
 

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I meant a test that does not require the use of a dyno. Unless someone else wants to pay for it. :)
 

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keeney, I know I've read of someone who had experienced clutch slip with auto oil. It might have been on gixxer.com since it was very long ago and that was where I mainly did my early reading (other than here, of course). That is the only first-hand experience I'd read about, however, and its been a long while.
 

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vash if you are willing to use your bike to do the tests you might want to contact the amsoil rep and see if they would help with contrubuting for the dyno tests and even contrubuting the different oil, it would be in there best interest.
 

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it would be in their best interest only if the clutch does slip (incidentally, I've had a clutch slip when I used an oil additive once), otherwise it just goes to prove that there is no good reason to pay $14/quart, or whatever they are charging now. Besides if I'm diong PR for a company, I want something in return. They got enough money to torture test bikes if they wanted to, apparently using internet bots is a more effective ways of advertising.
 

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keeney, I know I've read of someone who had experienced clutch slip with auto oil. It might have been on gixxer.com since it was very long ago and that was where I mainly did my early reading (other than here, of course). That is the only first-hand experience I'd read about, however, and its been a long while.
Probably already a bad clutch from wheelies on gixxer.com. :D There's still the issue that energy conserving oils are not the correct weight for bikes, so I wonder if it was just auto oil or energy conserving also. I realized yesterday during this discussion that all the energy conserving oils are in the 5w20 - 10w30 range, while all the motorcycle oils sold by the big 4 are in the 10w40 - 20w50 range, so if someone had a problem, aren't they using the wrong oil?

it would be in their best interest only if the clutch does slip (incidentally, I've had a clutch slip when I used an oil additive once), otherwise it just goes to prove that there is no good reason to pay $14/quart, or whatever they are charging now. Besides if I'm diong PR for a company, I want something in return. They got enough money to torture test bikes if they wanted to, apparently using internet bots is a more effective ways of advertising.
What was the additive? My guess is that you'll never hear from any oil company. Hype is cheaper than proof.
 

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Don't really remember, it was in my early days. It was one of those miracle save your engine additives.

However I'm almost certain I've seen energy conserving 10-40 oils
 

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Diesel oil

I guess ijust have to stock up on my shell rotella $8.88 a gallon at wally world the have a synthetic for about $19 Bucks a gallon but my old katanas and ninjas like the Regular Dino rotella .
 

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Discussion Starter #17
40 weight oils will not pass the test for the energy conserving certification because of viscosity drag. Friction modifiers are used in most oils. Moly is one of the most common and is used in high concentrations in Honda's motorcycle oil. Friction modifiers designed properly for specific applications can be used very successfully with wet clutches. The friction modifiers used in diesel oils apparently work fine as evidenced by many on this site. The point I was making about the new diesel oils for 2007 and beyond is this new CJ-4 diesel oil has a totally new additive package so the jury is still out on how it will affect wet clutches. Also if you get Shell Rotella T at a good price do it soon as most oil companies are now charging an extra energy sur charge plus a general price increase to customers like Wally world and it will surely be passed on to the consumer.

george
ADG
 

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Be wary of using some automotive oils as there are a few that contain Moly. IIRC, there are warnings in the Honda owner's manuals about using engine oils with Moly as it can cause the wet clutch to wear prematurely. Trust me, it has happened plenty of times, not just on Gixxer,com, but with many many people with several different brands of M/C. Sometimes the best oil really is an OEM motorcycle oil, synthetic or dyno. IMO, price be damned.

Do your oil research properly, and you'll come out ahead.

I've done well with Royal Purple Max-cycle and a K & N filter on my ZRX.

Here is the best INDEPENDENT oil analysis research done outside of a oil manufacturer/retailer grasp. It's for aircooled Porsche and Volkswagen engines, but many of the areas covered apply to motorcycles as well. Charles of L.N. Engineering can even do an oil analysis for your personal use motorcycle/car.
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html
 

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To each his own, for the little extra value priced motorcycle oil costs I'd rather buy it than save a few bucks and buy diesel oil--the wet clutch is one reason I rather get bike oil another is RPM and cooling differences between a bike engine and diesel engine (~3k rpm redline vs 10k+ redline).
 

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Energy conserving oils wont wear out your clutch. They could cause it to slip, but it can be remedied by changing your oil (and waiting abit).
Another thing to keep in mind is that some oils will cause your tranny to shift rough. I dont know what causes it, but I've seen it happen several times, and switching oil brands always helped
 
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