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Discussion Starter #1
This was from the show ER this past Thursday.

Synopsis:

There was a surrogate mother that was giving birth to a little boy for a couple that had experienced many m/c's. The IVF (invitro fert.) was through FET (fertilized egg transfer) so the surrogate was a true surrogate in the fact that it wasn't her egg that conceived this boy. The woman was all about having a natrual birth and after a car accident, had started to deliver the baby, feet first, a footling breech. Well, the drs tried to advise her against this as it could be very dangerous to the baby. The woman insisted she would not have a c/s dispite the parents-to-be's urges to have one. Unfortunately, the baby had severe brain damage from lack of oxygen during birth.

Question up for discussion, did the surrogate have the right to make the decsion not to have a c/s when she had committed to this couple to have their child? Does her right to her body/her choice become null and void once she becomes a surrogate? Was it her responsibility to have c-section to save this child's life?




Jen
 

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kawigirl_636 said:
...Question up for discussion, did the surrogate have the right to make the decsion not to have a c/s when she had committed to this couple to have their child? Does her right to her body/her choice become null and void once she becomes a surrogate? Was it her responsibility to have c-section to save this child's life?...
No, her rights aren't null and void.

Imagine if the circumstances meant that it was a choice between saving her own life or the baby's. Would she really sacrifice her life for someone else's child? I don't think so.

Since this wasn't the case, I think that, morally, she should've had the baby's best interests in mind and had the C-section.

A contract should've stipulated her rights in any and all possible scenarios.
 

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I missed the episode of ER. Why didn't she have the C-section? Vanity? If I were the doctors, I would have told the lady that she was going to die herself if she didn't have the c-section!

That whole thing sounds like a f-ed up situation. I know it's hypothetical, but it's not so far from what could happen in real life.

I look at my daughter in absolute amazement every day. I could not begin to imagine her having to live with brain damage that would/could have been preventable. Oh the horror!

That's sad thinking about a poor little kid in that situation. Now I am depressed. :(
 

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ITA with cookee...

If it was a choice between herself and the baby, then she has the right to say she wants to live.

Where the surrogate is just being militant about a "natural" experience, then tough crunchies. Baby's health comes first, especially since it's not even her baby at all.

If you agree to become a surrogate, then I think you agree to do everything within your powers to provide the bio parents with a healthy, live child. This includes avoiding items that can be detrimental to the health/development of the fetus (tobacco, alcohol, illegal drugs, etc.). Necessary medical treatments are part of that, from the triple-screen at 16 weeks gestation to the STD tests performed right away and a c-section should something go drastically wrong with the baby during the pregnancy.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Just FTR, I didn't watch the show. This subject just happens to be a hot topic right now somewhere else.

I think it's the doctor's fault. Why is he/she giving her a choice?? If giving birth naturally poses ANY risk to the baby OR mother, they immediately do a c-section. Hell, all that has to happen is the heart rate to drop too far and they start to suit up. If your water has been broken for more then 24 hours they will c-section.

"Sorry but your baby is breech, we'll have to do a c/s." That's what should have been said. They never deliver breech babies natrually.



Jen
 

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kawigirl_636 said:
They never deliver breech babies natrually.



Jen
Well, not any more maybe. I was a breech birth in 1970.

Funny thing was, when the doctor 'inspected' my mom at the time of delivery, he asked her if maybe she'd miscalculated the due date, as he couldn't feel any hair. They found out pretty quickly after that that instead of supposedly feeling my head, he was actually feeling my ass!:D

Just FTR.... I want to make it CRYSTAL CLEAR that I would never enjoy another male feeling my ass! :eek:
 

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Aus said:
That grew in later on!!!:D
but uhm...your head still resembles your ass lol.....
 

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kawigirl_636 said:


If your water has been broken for more then 24 hours they will c-section.

They never deliver breech babies natrually.



Jen
FYI, you're wrong on two counts there. I was witness to my twin's birth at UofM.

My wife's water broke on Friday, Dec 29, 2000. We went to her OB/GYN, then directly to the hospital. There was no sign of labor, just a broken water. She gave birth after being induced three days later (01/01/01). For a PRE-TERM baby (it might be different if your full term), they want to keep them inside mom for as long as possible. They induced after 3 days due to the chance of infection.

Baby A (Olivia Grace) was born quickly and without drama.

Baby B (Collin Matthew) was breech. They tried hard to turn him for over half an hour. He wouldn't budge. So they tried to have my wife push him out. The neo-natologist was watching him via ultra-sound. He lost his heartbeat and started scrubbing getting ready for a c/s. Fortunately, that's when my wife's OB said "You have to push NOW or you're going to get cut open!" and Collin came out ass first, folded in half.

C/S is a last resort if the mother wants to give birth naturally. Yes, in an emergency situation, they'll cut you open in a heartbeat. In the real world, I'm sure the Dr.'s would have forced a c/s.

Kevin
 

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Does your boy have any problems resulting from his breach birth / lack of heart beat?



Side note:

January 1st? Sh*t of a day to be born. My sister was born on that date. She could never have a decent party 'cause all her friends were always away on holiday (we have our long break over Christmas here). Also, she got fed-up with copping a Christmas fruit cake dressed up as a birthday cake.

The other bit that sucks is that, on New Year's, everyone's busy saying, "HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!", then they say, "Oh, HAPPY BIRTHDAY ......!!!"
 

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Can they sue her for breach of contract :D
 

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cookeetree said:
Ba-doom boom....tssh!



:laughing: Excellent.


Jen, gotta love tv, yes? They take what could be a real-life situation and put such exacerbated circumstances on it that you really can't logically debate it - since it wouldn't happen IRL.

Pre-term mambrane rupture, mom goes in the hospital and they put her on bed rest, monitoring, antibiotics and sometimes fluid replacement and try to keep the baby healthy and growing inside mom for as long as possible, which is the best place in the world for it. 36 weeks plus, nope, that baby is coming out.

They can deliver some breech vagnially, but most OB's prefer not to, as there is additional risk of injury to the baby and mother. In the case of a transverse lie, it will always be a section.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
919rider said:
FYI, you're wrong on two counts there. I was witness to my twin's birth at UofM.

My wife's water broke on Friday, Dec 29, 2000. We went to her OB/GYN, then directly to the hospital. There was no sign of labor, just a broken water. She gave birth after being induced three days later (01/01/01). For a PRE-TERM baby (it might be different if your full term), they want to keep them inside mom for as long as possible. They induced after 3 days due to the chance of infection.

Baby A (Olivia Grace) was born quickly and without drama.

Baby B (Collin Matthew) was breech. They tried hard to turn him for over half an hour. He wouldn't budge. So they tried to have my wife push him out. The neo-natologist was watching him via ultra-sound. He lost his heartbeat and started scrubbing getting ready for a c/s. Fortunately, that's when my wife's OB said "You have to push NOW or you're going to get cut open!" and Collin came out ass first, folded in half.

C/S is a last resort if the mother wants to give birth naturally. Yes, in an emergency situation, they'll cut you open in a heartbeat. In the real world, I'm sure the Dr.'s would have forced a c/s.

Kevin
I'm pretty sure that if your wife's water was broken they were maybe pumping saline into her. Infections begin around 24 hours so that's why they like to deliver prior to that. 3 days seems like a HUGE amount of time. Was she on an IV antibiotic?

I'm not familiar with proceedure with preterm babies. I know they want to keep them as long as possible inside the mom though. Then again, I think it's 35 weeks that twins are considered full term though...It's rare that they ever get to 40.

Glad she was able to deliver before they went in and did the c/s. :)




Jen
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I'm going to hijack my own thread and throw this out here:

While Hollywood awaits a due date for Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes' baby, one thing is already a known fact — when the baby does arrive, Scientology will play a major role.

Tom and Katie are likely to follow the church's "silent birth" guidelines during delivery, which means no music and no talking during the birth, which also means no screaming during the pains of labor.

The doctrine also states that newborns cannot be poked or prodded for medical tests or even spoken to for the first seven days of their lives, believing that babies go through so much pain during the birth, they shouldn't have to experience any further discomfort or sensory experience that could return later in life to haunt them.

And what about painkillers for Katie? Perhaps an epidural, which numbs the mom from the waist down?

Well, fellow Scientologist Kelly Preston told Redbook magazine she tried to follow the church's guidelines during the birth of her daughter Ella Bleu, but after 13 hours of at home labor, she changed her mind saying, "It got hard core at the end because she was so big" and eventually told husband John Travolta to "Throw me in the car. I want an epidural!"

But unfortunately for Kelly, it was too late. Due to traffic, there wasn't enough time to get to the hospital

Thoughts?



Jen
 

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Can't believe I'm even going to enter THIS debate.

I wonder what Scientology thinks about sex before marriage?

Also, women gave birth for thousands of years without pain killers. "Grin and bear it, Katie."


FTR, I think Scientology is a crock. But then, I could say that about most religions...
 

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cookeetree said:
Does your boy have any problems resulting from his breach birth / lack of heart beat?



Side note:

January 1st? Sh*t of a day to be born. My sister was born on that date. She could never have a decent party 'cause all her friends were always away on holiday (we have our long break over Christmas here). Also, she got fed-up with copping a Christmas fruit cake dressed up as a birthday cake.

The other bit that sucks is that, on New Year's, everyone's busy saying, "HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!", then they say, "Oh, HAPPY BIRTHDAY ......!!!"
No problems at all, thanks for asking! He was on O2 for 4 days, he and his sister were both at UofM's NICU for 10 days then transfered to St. Jos's Special Care Unit for another 20 days. Both are healthy and growing great. Collin is a little guy though. His sister probably has 5-10 pounds on him, and his clothes from last winter still fit him!

RE: Jan 1st. We figure that all of thier friend's parents are going to love us. Once they're in school, we'll probably have a slumber party for them over New Years. Let the kids all stay up, then have cake at Midnight. Figure all thier parents will then be able to go out and have fun while we watch thier kids. Sucks for us, but, oh well!

Kevin
 

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kawigirl_636 said:
I'm pretty sure that if your wife's water was broken they were maybe pumping saline into her. Infections begin around 24 hours so that's why they like to deliver prior to that. 3 days seems like a HUGE amount of time. Was she on an IV antibiotic?

I'm not familiar with proceedure with preterm babies. I know they want to keep them as long as possible inside the mom though. Then again, I think it's 35 weeks that twins are considered full term though...It's rare that they ever get to 40.

Glad she was able to deliver before they went in and did the c/s. :)




Jen
No saline, but yes, she was on IV antibiotics.

She delivered at just over 34 weeks. 4 pounds 1 oz, and 4 pounds 7 oz.

Kevin
 
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