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Discussion Starter #1
I am curious to know if most of you guys actually plan turning points in your corners when you ride (on the street). That may be a stupid question but only one way to find out...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That book was saying something about choosing a turn point (to turn the bike) in each turn but I don't think I do that. Does that make sense?
 

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Oh, for each corner. I don't really do it, I just kinda feel out the road and adjust for things like gravel, etc. I think once I get a couple track days under my belt, I'll probably be able to improve my lines on the street, but until then I'm just out to have fun.
 

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I have, this season, been making an effort to pick the entry point for my turns where I knew I can have some speed in them. Unfortunately gravel gets in the way the vast majority of time. I do NOT pick out the apex or exit mainly because I can't see all the way through the turns, but they generally end up being the same anyway.

As for braking or slowing points ahead of the entry point, I don't do it mostly because it depends on how fast I'm moving, which is based on traffic patterns, my proximity to the local LEOs, weather, crop heights, etc.

In case you miss the underlying theme here, doing this stuff on the track is precisely why its considered the most efficient route to becoming a better rider. You practice all the important points of cornering in a controlled (usually) environment and go over them again and again. It has been said the best modification to any bike is rider training and I doubt anyone could argue that to be false :2cents:
 

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Do it on every corner, once I know the corner. If its the first time I see it, no planning is possible, unless its a short street corner where you can see thru it. Still, without planning ahead its hard to get it even close to right. If there is gravel or bad chunk of pavement, I plan a line to compensate for it. Wether turn in late, or early, or double apex or whatever. Tracks do not put easy corners for you, they put in tricky ones. You know, the off camber, decreasing radius, uphill-downhill blind stuff. Yea with a crest to really throw you off. Whats a pothole?
As for braking, I make it an effort to hit the brakes, even if I am going slow enough to make the corner. It ussually nothing more than a light tap that doesnt really change my speed, just flashes the light. Just to train my hand to do it.

Well, early morning I dont plan anything. I'm a total zombie
 

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If I can see my way through the corner, or it is one that is already familiar, I definitely do. However, as has been mentioned by many here, I often have to modify my lines due to unexpected variability in road conditions.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Okay that helps, thanks everyone! I was riding yesterday and trying to pick turn points but couldn't figure out how to do that when I couldn't even see thru the turn. I thought maybe I was doing something wrong (shocker) but I guess it's not necessary on every turn then. I am just trying to get into the habit of doing things right so maybe it will become second nature one day. I like the idea that Vash had of grabbing the brake even if it's not necessary to train the hand. That's just what I'm trying to do, kind of get myself trained so things become automatic (to a certain extent).

Edit: You know, I just read that again and confused myself, lol. Is choosing a line the same as choosing a turn point? Because I pick a line for every turn but I never think about where I'll turn/counter steer, I just do it. I just try and pick the line that will allow me to roll on the throttle quickly. Am I missing something?
 

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Its simular. The line will connect the points, but with points there is additional information. When you select a line, you select the points as well, but if you dont do so consiously, then the selection is arbitrary to a degree. I mean, if you select a line for maximum acceleration, than you must also select the point at which you will start accelerating, no?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I just busted out laughing when I read that last line.. I'm such a tool. You're right, when I pick a line the beginning point of my acceleration is my turn point. What a dumbass. :loser: Thanks Vash!
 

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man, I wish I had some software to draw this with...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Uh oh, that makes me think I'm wrong again..? Can you draw something on like 'paint' and upload the image?
 

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Ok, I wipped something up in my cad suite. Sorry about the rectangles on the bottom, thats adobe fucking up.

Anyways, you see, the idea is to make a quick tipping point at low speed, than use as much of the corner for acceleration as possible. Since the second arc is much larger radius than the first, you do not need much lean there.

Edit: Your eyes and mind should always be concentrating on the next segment, not the one you are on. If you are braking, you should be looking at and thinking about your tipping point. When you are tipping, you should be looking at the inside of the corner, and thinking about your rolling on point. When rolling on the throttle you should be looking at the outside exit point of the corner, thinking about how soon you can have the throttle wide open. Then when you are on the streight, you need to be thinking about, and looking at your next brake point. If you ever start thinking about the section you are on, instead of the one ahead, you will lock up and crash. Keep your mind ahead of you.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Oh wow, that's freaking incredible. Thank you soooooo much! You have no idea how helpful that is. I don't mean to ask you a hundred questions but when you say to move my body towards the front of the bike but still off to the side, why is that? I was just wondering because I'm having a little issue when I try to bring myself back up I keep making the bike go wide for just a few seconds before I'm back in the seat (kinda nerve racking). I know you had told me that would happen before (if I needed to adjust my line) but I'm just trying to come back up and I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Sorry for all the questions!
 

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Questions is what we are here for.
Alright, split your movements on the bike into two kinds. Side center to side, and front to center to back.
Now, when turning, you want your Center of gravity as far off to the side as possible, if you hang off yourself, you don't need to lean the bike as much, and you get to keep more rubber on the road. When you are about to turn, it is necessary to shift your body ahead of time, so you need to lean the bike the opposite way to compensate and keep your CG over the wheels. when you come back up, you shift the Center of gravity of the bike closer to the center, and the bike starts straightening up, running wide. Keep on hanging off all thru the corner, come up when you are no longer turning.

Now the back and forth movement is about weight transfer due to acceleration or braking. When you are accelerating, you can accelerate until the bike wheelies, and then you cant accelerate anymore. If you shift your body forward, it will make it harder for the bike to wheelie, and you can go faster. The opposite happens when you brake. As you brake weight transfers forward. When 100% of the weight is on the front tire, the bike starts to stand up, and you cant brake any harder. By moving your body back, you shift weight away from the front, allowing you to brake harder before the rear wheel comes up.

It is almost always better to keep your weight as far low as you can, as this negates the lever by which you weight resists motion from side to side, and also negates the lever by which your bike stands on either wheel. However, during corner entry, it is more important to have a good view, so that you can see and pick the right line, so you lift your head up to improve your view.
 

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Admittingly, accidental wheelies should not be too much of a problem of a 250/500. But you might as well get into the right habit
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Ahh I get it now. You just kind of glued everything together for me, that's crazy. That makes total sense now. And I think you're right, I may not be all the way out of the corners when I'm trying to come back up. I don't know how I could have missed that... So on a side note, you should quit your job and become a teacher. Your explainations leave no room for confusion. Thanks again! I'm getting ready to go ride in a few so I'm going to take another look at that diagram and make sure it gets beat into my head today!
 

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Thanks! All this stuff is real simple once you get the whole picture, but makes no sense when all you got is just pieces. Oftentimes it helps to draw it out
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yeah it really helps to see it. I'm hoping that next spring once I trade mine in, I can find some kind of riding course to take. They must have something around here besides the BRC. I'd like to get some hands on instruction so I can continue to improve. I'm really not sure why, lol, I just have this odd need to be really good at stuff and it'll drive me nuts until I am. I finished the book I was reading and I wanted to check out the one you mentioned (Total Control) is that the one by Lee Parks? Didn't want to order the wrong one..

OT- Is it possible to jump a bike? I hit a little hill kind of fast yesterday and the front end felt kind of light, it's kind of hard to explain but I was just curious...
 

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Yep, lee parks is the one. There are a few things in that book that I've come to disagree with (in particular the use of rear brake during cornering) but overall its solid advice, plus he has a really helpful writing style.

Yes, its possible to jump a bike. More over, it is really easy to wheelie a bike at the crest of a hill. As always with wheelies there is a danger of a headshake and a tankslapper, especially since your bike is not equiped with a steering damper.
What can happen, is that you front wheel will come off the ground, and then land crooked, not turned with respect to the steering head, but on the side as of your bike was leaned. The wheel will try to straighten up quickly when it is under load, and it will overshoot, and turn the other way, then again and again, getting stronger each time. At this point you will wont to get on the brake. DO NOT DO IT! braking will transfer weight to the front wheel, making the oscilations worse. They can get strong enough to rip the bars out of your hands. When the oscilating front reaches its turn stops it will shake the entire bike, and will most likely throw you off. Instead, get on the gas, hard. Get as much weight off the front wheel as you can, and your bars will stop shaking.
 
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