Sportbike World banner

21 - 40 of 65 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
873 Posts
More Info

Seems the Chinese pilot was flying directly undernieth the EP-3 as it made a left banking turn. Sorry China, you lose.

Additionally, the Chinese are now saying we will never see the crew again unless we apologize. and they have said they now view the crew as criminals and are interrogating them.

Sounds to me like they are playing chicken with a Mack Truck.

I am about ready to join the "f*ck it all, time to kick ass" bandwagon. Ive been hesitant so far, but i think its time to drop the nice guy crap, as they are only interested in saving face.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
698 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
Re: More Info

GreenNinja said:
Seems the Chinese pilot was flying directly undernieth the EP-3 as it made a left banking turn. Sorry China, you lose.

Additionally, the Chinese are now saying we will never see the crew again unless we apologize. and they have said they now view the crew as criminals and are interrogating them.

Sounds to me like they are playing chicken with a Mack Truck.
That is just total BS(the Chinese position not you GN). This really pisses me off. And I hope the Bush Administration feels the same way. I mean, this simply cannot stand. It's wrong! :mad:

This is a true test of moral character now. The Chinese are twisting this incident into something worse and I don't think the US should stand idley by and take it in the name of US-Chinese relations. They've got more to loose than we. I do believe this is an act of war. Terrifying as that may seem, but what else is it? You have two military aircraft of opposing sides collide by accident in international waters, and one country takes Prisoners? I don't think so. I'm sorry guys but f__k this shit!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,644 Posts
if you want to hurt china, right letters to american, asian and european companies that have invested in china and tell them that you will not buy their products so long as they continue to support a government (which all investment in chinese businesses are investments in their govt.) that engages in hostle activities against the united states.

i have never been in favor of chinese investment by american companies. i understand the idea is to introduce capitalism to the communists, but f' them. i never had a problem with investing in the soviets (groups from capitalist countries had a better deal there too). i think they are equally opposed to launching nukes as we are. i don't think china cares as much.

anyway, i don't applaud the idea of invading china. war should be avoided at all costs. i don't see the benefit of sending our children off to war.

away, don't buy from companies that invest in china and let them know (though i'd guess it harder to find companies that don't since when wrote a page in college about western investment in china). it was one reason i didn't buy another volkeswagen.

away, screw the apologies, economic punishment is due. they want the upsides of capitalism (embesslement), it's time they see the bad.
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Re: More Info

GreenNinja said:
Additionally, the Chinese are now saying we will never see the crew again unless we apologize. and they have said they now view the crew as criminals and are interrogating them.
When did they say that ?

Sounds to me like they are playing chicken with a Mack Truck.
That's probably not a good analogy. If USA and China ever went to war. The casualties would probably be great on both ends.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
873 Posts
Re: Re: More Info

Squidwannabe said:


When did they say that ?
http://www.foxnews.com/national/040501/china_plane.sml

The story is constantly changing also.


That's probably not a good analogy. If USA and China ever went to war. The casualties would probably be great on both ends.
Thats what China would want you to believe. Any casualty is a bad thing but China is WAY beyond reason right now. I dont feel the US, or any country for that matter (even Canada) should have to bend over when another country decides to be a bully.

What kind of message is that??

Remember when the US bombed the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade? THAT was our fault and we QUICKLY gave a full apology and held ourselves responsible, made reparations and more. This is what China wants us to do now, and im sorry, it just isnt gonna happen. And since it isnt gonna happen they are going to have to return the crew without the apology whether they like it or not. If they dont there WILL be hell to pay.

Any other country would hold the US to this same standard, (even more so) so the precedent is already set.

And to those that label America as the big bully in the world... that is something that every American and most every politician would undoubtedly like to change. The problem stems from extremist nations like Iraq and China rattling their sabres whenever they see America going soft internationally.

Damned if u do, damned if u dont! I would rather see us DO in this case.
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
GreenNinja said:
Nevermind, the foxnews link tells it all :rolleyes:

Thats what China would want you to believe. Any casualty is a bad thing but China is WAY beyond reason right now. I dont feel the US, or any country for that matter (even Canada) should have to bend over when another country decides to be a bully.
Nor do I.
US is protecting their best interest by trying to remain civil. China is a big place, they have money. Money that the US wants.
China is playing games, for what reason ?? It's beyond me. I hope they don't really think they are right. If they think they are right we have to respect that and try to approach them in a civil way.. You can't just bomb the shit out of them because they want to conduct an investigation .. After all negotiations fail then we bomb em!

(I still say we bomb them now though :D shhh!!!)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
698 Posts
Discussion Starter #28
Re: Re: Re: More Info

GreenNinja said:


[snip]

And to those that label America as the big bully in the world... that is something that every American and most every politician would undoubtedly like to change. The problem stems from extremist nations like Iraq and China rattling their sabres whenever they see America going soft internationally.

Damned if u do, damned if u dont! I would rather see us DO in this case.
I agree with everything you said GN. Everyone, with the exception of the UK, Canada, Australia & NZ, seem to want a piece of the US. If they can stand up to us, even for one little incident, and if they can win a concession from us, no matter how trivial, it's a victory for them politically. Perhaps in the case of China, their government desperately needs a political victory to insure their survival. Especially after the bombing of the Chinese embassy. Otherwise, they will appear weak. Everyone seems to think that the US can afford to loose a few games every once in a while. Afterall, we're always winning. Well, in a way it's true. The US may only "appear" weak or can afford to appear weak because deep inside everyone knows when push comes to shove, the US can clean anybody's clock.

When all is said and done, China will lose this one. Whether it's now or later. They will never win. The Bush Administration will NOT lose this one either. They can't afford to. If we were to cut ALL trade to China, prices will rise only temporarily. Then, other countries will take their place. But if China were to lose us as a market, there won't be anybody to take our place. They WILL suffer big time. They know this. We know this. Seems to me that the Chinese President backed his country into a corner by DEMANDING an apology. Something that I doubt will ever come. Then what? Then they'll probably settle for something less then return the American crew and the plane(after they strip it). I don't think they're stupid enough to risk their economic future just because of this.

It's too late for China to save face. The US has no face to loose since we hold the moral high ground. Now it's a simple game of who loses the most. And China will loose the most this time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
423 Posts
A question for ya's...

I just wonder how many of us who feel the U.S. should stand up and fight over this China incident own guns? The reason I am wondering this is because there seems to be a vast difference in the mentality between those who seek to appease everyone that wants to kick us around and those who want to kick back until the enemy is knocked on their asses. Those who seek to appease want no guns in the hands of ordinary citizens yet when the shit hits the fan they want those who have guns to protect their sorry asses.

Oh hell, there I go being intolerant again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,166 Posts
I own guns and I say ef em. Isn't that usually how it goes though?

China says the U.S. Navy EP-3E veered suddenly, bumping Wang's F-8 jet, sent up to track the surveillance flight.

This is their statement. If so why would a fast Mig need to be so close to a big lumbering P-3 that even a sudden veer would cause the two to be close enough to touch? The Mig never should of been that close to begin with, it's not like the P3 could out run it.


Overall though.Would 24 lives be worth a war? Our friendly fire would kill more of us than 24.
Now it goes back to the basic schoolyard mentality. China is standing up the the big kid in the school yard and wants the rest of the kids to see how tough they are. "We aren't scared of #1." What to do to show we are #1 and not seem like we are overreacting?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,166 Posts
Squidwannabe said:



Florida, Half of our country is already there..... Im pretty sure we can take Zaire too.
Florida. That's true, you have the occupation part covered. Are the blue hairs faking their age and more capable than they let on? Hmmmm.
Zaire? Sh*t, you Canucks would melt in 2 days tops. And the real jungle ain't like Jumangi. Its more like Apocalypse Now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
577 Posts
Apologize?:confused: Hell no! Bomb the commie bastards back into the stone age.:mad:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,644 Posts
listen, i'm not supporting china in anyway shape or form. actually i have long been against western alliances with china and activity try not to buy chinese-made products (even before this). china has long been our enemy. but hell, bomb them back the stone age?!?

i know a lot of servicemen. and i don't think that any of their lives are worth being sacrificed so that we can keep our tough kid on the block world image that we love so much.

don't bomb them, leave to communism. they'll be crushed by their weight, much like the ussr was.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
698 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
Re: A question for ya's...

Bikenut said:
I just wonder how many of us who feel the U.S. should stand up and fight over this China incident own guns? ......Those who seek to appease want no guns in the hands of ordinary citizens yet when the shit hits the fan they want those who have guns to protect their sorry asses.....
I own guns. However, I have felt this way since day one. BEFORE I even owned any guns. Perhaps because my Dad fought in WW2 and that kick ass mentality he's always had filtered on to me. He's never been one to appease. Especially when he knew he was right. Fighting Imperial Japan kinda does that to a man. Anyway, looking at China's history, you know they're lying through their teeth like always. I believe they invented "spinning". The Clinton Administration just took it to a new level.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
698 Posts
Discussion Starter #35
FZR400Tony said:
listen, i'm not supporting china in anyway shape or form. actually i have long been against western alliances with china and activity try not to buy chinese-made products (even before this). china has long been our enemy.[/QOUTE]

It's kinda hard not to buy Chinese made stuff though isn't it? I mean, how many riding gloves are there that are NOT made in China? Maybe someone can form a list. Hell! Even some helmets are made there. Then you've got those little calculators, flashlights, radios, etc., etc. Gives you an idea of how much we trade with China.

[QOUTE] but hell, bomb them back the stone age?!?

i know a lot of servicemen. and i don't think that any of their lives are worth being sacrificed so that we can keep our tough kid on the block world image that we love so much.
[QOUTE]

One of these days, we are going to have to kick China's ass. Mark my words. It's not all about keeping the tough kid image. It's all about our nation's integrity. China is testing that right now. The question is: should we follow the lies and the spins China is throwing at us and admit defeat for the sake of keeping the status quo? If we do, how will China, and indeed the rest of the world treat us the next time something similar happens? Knowing we are willing to accept their lies and spins for the sake of them saving face? Once we go down this route, we will pay the price sometime in the future. And it could very well cost the lives of our Servicemen & women, or even civilians. You'll never know really. And like it or not, we ARE the tough kid on the block. We are the Superpower of the world. We were thrust to this position because other tough kids on the block thought they could push us aside. Now we have a new tough kid, China, who someday will try to push us aside. This current situation is just China's probe into the integrity, strength, and moral discipline of the US. They want to see how far they can push us and still get away with it. Then, they can use that knowledge to their advantage later again. That's how the Chinese work. Been like that for centuries. And other nations will learn from this and treat the US accordingly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
873 Posts
Rogue is right on on that last one.

China is testing the US and GW. How we act/react/bendover, etc, will determine China's policy externally and internally for the next 10 years.

This is a precedent setting incident and EVERY nation in the world, whether admitting it or not, is looking at the US for a reaction/action that will let them know how solid or transparent America is resolved to be.

This is serious stuff and China is playing us for all they can get. Its a dangerous game and I for one would not want to be in GW Bush's shoes right now.

Question though... what would Al Gore have done? The thought scares me. I dont think it would have been dragged out this long, thats for sure... and why? we would never know... it would all have been transparent... until 3 years later when the shit would be hitting the fan....

On second thought i could be wrong, perhaps it would be an Iran Hostage Situation... no end in sight? Who knows!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
873 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
577 Posts
Give an inch and China will take ten thousand miles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
698 Posts
Discussion Starter #39
Thanks for the link GN.

It doesn't change a thing. Each side has a different twist. However, the US version seems MORE believable since it does NOT defy the laws of physics. C'mon. Do the Chinese expect us to believe that their "fighter-interceptor" is not capable of avoiding an aircraft 10 times it's size? If the Chinese plane was flying at a safe distance, any "big move" by the US EP3 can easily be countered.

Bottom line, the Chinese planes were flying extremely close. So close that any deliberate directional change by the EP3 could not be avoided in time, even by a plane designed to maneuver quickly. Period.

I've got my fingers crossed that we'd get our crew and plane back by this weekend.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
517 Posts
Re: My 2 cents..

Bikenut said:
...Winston Churchill said: "Walk softly and carry a big stick."...
No, actually, that would've been Teddy Roosevelt.
 
21 - 40 of 65 Posts
Top