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Discussion Starter #1
This is a perfect thread for endlesswaves, so I will also probably make a similar thread in a forum he visits more often. But, my question is this. Anybody know your state and local laws as far as stunting a salvaged (unregistered) or titleless (IE no numbers or title or whatever) bike? I got lucky with my old gixxer when the cops showed up at the one wreck I had. It was actually on the road. It has no lights of any kind on it, no paperwork whatsoever, and the numbers were ground off. It was built from the ground up with parts bought off ebay. Including the numberless frame. Yes, I know, I'm a horrible person for encouraging and helping the thieving bastards... but how could I pass on a straight frame for 50 bucks?? Cop showed up, I explained. and he was cool with it. The bike was fuct anyway. But anyhow.

what are the laws? I'm moving to florida @ the end of august. And I don't want to have my bike taken from me and get arrested for stolen property or some craziness. I would only use it as a lot bike. Not on the road. trailer it to the spot and all that. Is there any way to legitamize a numberless frame? Should I look into a salvage frame with numbers to save myself the headache? anyone have one? What are the repricusions. Anyone ever get busted with such a thing? Feel free to toss in your input. Thanks for the info.

~ the super :squid:
 

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According to this: Linky! in Florida you would be guilty of a Felony in the 3rd Degree (whatever that means).

Unless I remember wrong (correct me if I am, endles) it's a D felony here in Kentucky for exactly the same offense. So getting a new frame with a VIN may or may not work, depending on what your state's inspection laws are on rebuilds or custom bikes.

If you want my advice, I would scrap that frame before I found myself looking at a mandatory minimum year in prison. As a cop, if I were to find someone in possession of something like that, they would have to face the charges. A frame for $50.00? That's a no-brainer. :( I've arrested people with $400.00 stereos that they paid $25.00 for and didn't believe that being in possession of stolen property was a crime.
 

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Hi RoadstainR6-

Ditch this cursed bike that was acquired on the agony of many innocent victims. Promise never to do business with lowlife creeps you may encounter and let the truth set you free.

~ Blue Jays ~
 

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sidewaysducati said:
Better yet Roadstain, take the bike and yourself down to your nearest police station, turn yourself in, and get what's coming to you.
Rather heartless of you to say this eh?:twofinger
 

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ga_skyline_rydr said:
Rather heartless of you to say this eh?:twofinger
I have no respect for thieves. I have more respect for people who randomly kill people in parking lots than I do for thieves.

I look at it like an 'old west' sort of thing. Steal a horse, get hanged. It's that simple for me.
 

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Sorry to get so serious on you, Skyline. Theft is just a topic that causes me to lose my sense of humor in record time.

Anyway, how's the weather down there in Hotlanta? Feeling the humidity yet?:twofinger
 

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Hi sidewaysducati-

Thieves are creeps, but you have LESS respect for them than murderers who "...randomly kill people in parking lots..." by comparison? Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have my motorcycle stolen than have someone walk up behind me and put a bullet through my ear for no reason. Why is that criminal somehow deserving of some respect over a common thief...or were you just being sarcastic?

~ Blue Jays ~
 

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I came across a bike with a newly stamped frame from the DMV or some LE. This bike had been stolen (I guess) and instead of the 17 digit VIN the DMV stamped a AZ12345 VIN on it. The owner didn't have the title, so a 'bond title' is the only thing the DMV would issue me, which meant that anytime in the next 3 years a previous legitimate owner could reclaim the bike from me and I would have nothing, unless I got the bond title and moved out of state, then the bike would be mine and no one could claim it. It all sounded like too much of a hassle so I didnt get the bike.

In your case, you are moving out of state, but it needs for the LE or DMV to put a new stamp on the bike before you could get a 'bond title'. I guess you could anonymously contact the DMV or LE and find out if they would re-issue a VIN or put you in jail if you brought the frame to them.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
sidewaysducati said:
Better yet Roadstain, take the bike and yourself down to your nearest police station, turn yourself in, and get what's coming to you.
Tell you what, I will. I'm not a thief and have nothing to hide. I will turn the frame in. I'm not about to have my integrity questioned and be gutted over something like this. I'm not a thief, never have been, and never will be. Don't judge me based on your ignorance. I didn't buy the frame knowing it was stolen. Police officers have already examined the bike before. I was given no grief by them once I told my story and presented the bill of sale and reciepts. Yes, I should have taken it and cut the head off it when I got it. But I didn't. My bad. Don't come on here tellin me I deserve to die or be in jail over it. I understand you don't like thieves. Nobody does. And I have nothing against you voicing your opinion. But don't label me. I'm not a thief. I am asking what I can do to legitimize the situation and keep myself from being labeled as such. :finger:
 

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Blue Jays said:
...were you just being sarcastic?

~ Blue Jays ~
It was more an irresponsible use of hyperbole than anything.

I have absolutely no respect for thieves or murderers, so it's kind of an absolute zero thing as opposed to greater than / less than.
 

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RoadStainR6 said:
Tell you what, I will. I'm not a thief and have nothing to hide. I will turn the frame in. I'm not about to have my integrity questioned and be gutted over something like this. I'm not a thief, never have been, and never will be. Don't judge me based on your ignorance. I didn't buy the frame knowing it was stolen. Police officers have already examined the bike before. I was given no grief by them once I told my story and presented the bill of sale and reciepts. Yes, I should have taken it and cut the head off it when I got it. But I didn't. My bad. Don't come on here tellin me I deserve to die or be in jail over it. I understand you don't like thieves. Nobody does. And I have nothing against you voicing your opinion. But don't label me. I'm not a thief. I am asking what I can do to legitimize the situation and keep myself from being labeled as such. :finger:
I'm turning over a new leaf, and being less of a dick than I like to be, so allow me to respond accordingly.

I think you said the frame cost 50 bucks, and wasn't bent. That indicates beyond question that it's hot. As in: "hotter than a two dollar pistol".

I never said you deserved to die. I said you deserve whatever legal ramifications come your way from buying hot goods. I don't believe you thought a 50 dollar frame that wasn't folded up was legit. That's BS.

Edit: Not just a 50 dollar frame, but a 50 dollar frame with the numbers ground off. Come on.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
sidewaysducati said:
I'm turning over a new leaf, and being less of a dick than I like to be, so allow me to respond accordingly.

I think you said the frame cost 50 bucks, and wasn't bent. That indicates beyond question that it's hot. As in: "hotter than a two dollar pistol".

I never said you deserved to die. I said you deserve whatever legal ramifications come your way from buying hot goods. I don't believe you thought a 50 dollar frame that wasn't folded up was legit. That's BS.

Edit: Not just a 50 dollar frame, but a 50 dollar frame with the numbers ground off. Come on.

Ebay. Its an auction. the frame was described as...

"Up for auction is a frame from a 2002 gixxer 750. I used it for a race bike for a season and had a bad spill. The frame is fine. No dings, dents, or bends. I however do not have the time or money to fix the bike. So I'm parting it out. I do not have a title or paperwork for it as it was a track bike only. IT IS NOT STOLEN (this was typed exactly like that in big bold letters) My loss is your gain. NO RESERVE."

And the auction started at a dollar. It had 2 pictures. Nothing close to the vin. I bid 25 bucks at first. Then was out bid. I bid 50 bucks. and won. I thought I got a sweet ass deal. it showed up at my house, with no numbers. I didn't willfully purchase stolen property. Will that matter if a police officer doesn't like what he see's. Maybe, maybe not. THAT is why I asked. I wanted to know what to do with my situation. State and local police in my area have both seen the bike, and had no problems with it. I am moving, and was wondering what to expect from that area. a simple "that shit is stolen, get rid of it" would have been just fine. But "you deserve to go to jail you hunk of shit" is not quite what I was looking for. Perhaps I should have been more specific. But like I said, the resonses I got, were not expected. Let me show you current auctions going on RIGHT NOW. And you will see what I mean.

1.) a frame... with no title. But, no picture of the vin either.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=35585&item=4558387618&rd=1

2.) Same style auction as the one I purchased mine from. Cept mine didn't list numbers. Note the pictures. The frame I purchased was listed a lot like this one. Also, look at the starting price!!! Just like mine!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34284&item=4558455882&rd=1

3.) Claims a clear title, but shows no vin. Only repricusion I can do is leave bad feedback. OOooooo
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=35585&item=4558979667&rd=1

4.) I bought my frame from florida as well. This auction adds some interesting info. But note the pics and add. Almost identicle in wording to the one I purchased mine off of. Cept mine said nothing about the missing numbers.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=35585&item=4559135123&rd=1

5.) another track/stunt frame. Says nothing about numbers, and shows no pictures. low starting price, no reserve, no buy it now. Just like mine.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=35580&item=4559036763&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Now thats 5 friggin ebay auctions. NONE showing the vin numbers, and NONE looking conspicuous to the layperson. That is the same way I got my frame. I intended to use it as a stunt bike. and thats how they are advertised. I'm young, dumb, and broke. But I'm not a fuckin thief. I'm sorry if you think I'm a hunk of shit for a human being now. But at least you understand where I'm comming from. I didn't KNOWINGLY purchase stolen goods. and there is no way to say whether it is stolen. As the one auction listed about the track bikes. In florida, the numbers must be removed for non street legal vehicles. Bullshit? possibly. But I don't know. and at the time I purchased that frame, wouldn't have thought twice about it. I was just getting into riding. Didn't have forums like this. And went on what was said. I think I have put down a diecent defense for myself. If you still don't belive it, thats fine. The bike is being examined by the police, might have to take it to the DMV. Not sure yet. I'm an upstanding human being. Not a piece of shit. Don't question my integrity.
 

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First off, I never called you a hunk of shit. I don't think I called you any names at all.

Secondly, just because the people selling the stuff on those auctions don't say the items are stolen (of course they don't) doesn't mean you have no responsibility as a human being.

Best case scenario, you didn't do your homework. Ebay is where most stripped bikes wind up. Something on ebay with no numbers is most likely hot, no matter what stunna story the seller tells you. Why would the numbers be ground off because it's a stuntbike? To shave a half gram worth of weight of the front of the frame?

So you didn't KNOWINGLY purchase hot items. Technicality.

Lastly, I never called you any names. You put those words in my mouth. And I'll question your integrity all I want. I haven't personally attacked you (no matter how many times you put words I never said in my mouth). You posted a thread about how to legitimize a hot frame on a site where the vast majority of the posters (all of the regulars, in fact) are upstanding good people. You got flamed. It's hard for me to shed a tear for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Just got a call back from officer henry. He said that since the engine has numbers, they won't take the whole bike. But by some number rule/law saying...

"If all numbers or other identifying marks manufactured on a major component part have been altered, defaced, destroyed, or otherwise removed for the purpose of concealing the identity of the major component part, the part shall constitute contraband and shall be subject to forfeiture by a seizing law enforcement agency, pursuant to applicable provisions. Any major component part forfeited under this subsection shall be destroyed or disposed of in a manner so as to make it unusable. " (not a direct quote from him. Taken from the link posted by the other officer, but almost identicle to what he said)

So, I am losing my frame. They will take it, and cut it into tiny little pieces. and I will be out of a bike. But I will feel better. Cause I won't have to worry about it. They were unable to lift any numbers for it. And there is no reason that any frame should have the numbers ground off of it. At least in Pennsylvania. And since that is where I reside. The frame now belongs to them. I was thanked by the officers for bringing it to them and doing the "right thing". Not punished and threatened with jail time. However much I am going to hate not having a bike for the next few days, I think that I have made things as right as I possibly can. I lost a day of work (hoped online during lunch break and read your reply's) because I was too furious about being labeled a thief. I am also out a bike. But my character is not in question anymore I would hope. Take this as a lesson for everyone at my expense. If you buy shit off ebay, get GOOD pics of it first.
 

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Hi RoadstainR6-

The details you offered in your follow-up posts are helpful towards understanding the full story. Please tell me you totally slammed the seller when providing feedback on the transaction! As enthusiasts in this sport, we all have to hang together and not let dirtbags get one over on ANY of us.

~ Blue Jays ~
 

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Discussion Starter #18
sidewaysducati said:
First off, I never called you a hunk of shit. I don't think I called you any names at all.

Secondly, just because the people selling the stuff on those auctions don't say the items are stolen (of course they don't) doesn't mean you have no responsibility as a human being.

Best case scenario, you didn't do your homework. Ebay is where most stripped bikes wind up. Something on ebay with no numbers is most likely hot, no matter what stunna story the seller tells you. Why would the numbers be ground off because it's a stuntbike? To shave a half gram worth of weight of the front of the frame?

So you didn't KNOWINGLY purchase hot items. Technicality.

Lastly, I never called you any names. You put those words in my mouth. And I'll question your integrity all I want. I haven't personally attacked you (no matter how many times you put words I never said in my mouth). You posted a thread about how to legitimize a hot frame on a site where the vast majority of the posters (all of the regulars, in fact) are upstanding good people. You got flamed. It's hard for me to shed a tear for you.
You labeled me as a thief. Thieves are hunks of shit. Therefore, you labeled me a hunk of shit. That is where that statement came from. There was never any mention of numbers. And there was no photo of it. It was assumed that it had them.

"You posted a thread about how to legitimize a hot frame on a site where the vast majority of the posters (all of the regulars, in fact) are upstanding good people"

So because I took his word for it, I'm not an upstanding good person? I made things right. I corrected a wrongdoing on my behalf. I have learned my lesson. The frame is gone. My purchase of a misleading auction and inquirey into what should be done with the situation it put me into, doesn't mean that I was trying to legitamize a hot frame. I was trying to get information on the situation. I don't ask for your tears or your sympathy. I just don't like when my character is called into judgement.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Blue Jays said:
Hi RoadstainR6-

The details you offered in your follow-up posts are helpful towards understanding the full story. Please tell me you totally slammed the seller when providing feedback on the transaction! As enthusiasts in this sport, we all have to hang together and not let dirtbags get one over on ANY of us.

~ Blue Jays ~
Sadly my pathetic feedback was "frame as described. Quick shipping" :( :(

I did not realize the predicament until my friend came over to help me assemble the bike. He pointed it out. The only thing I could do was send nasty emails. Which he most likely laughed at. I gave his username to ebay. But thats about all that could be done with it. :finger:
 

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RoadStainR6 said:
You labeled me as a thief. Thieves are hunks of shit. Therefore, you labeled me a hunk of shit. That is where that statement came from. There was never any mention of numbers. And there was no photo of it. It was assumed that it had them...
I didn't call you a thief. What happened was, I said "turn yourself in and get yours", then Skyline said something to the effect of "that's harsh", then I said, effectively, "I hate thieves".
That's about 2 steps removed from calling you anything. I remember what I was thinking when I wrote that, and it wasn't that you were a thief, because you're not (you didn't steal anything). It was the more abstract "I hate thieves".


RoadStainR6 said:

...So because I took his word for it, I'm not an upstanding good person? I made things right. I corrected a wrongdoing on my behalf. I have learned my lesson. The frame is gone. My purchase of a misleading auction and inquirey into what should be done with the situation it put me into, doesn't mean that I was trying to legitamize a hot frame. I was trying to get information on the situation. I don't ask for your tears or your sympathy. I just don't like when my character is called into judgement.
And it's admirable that you cleared the situation up. The way your first posts (in the duplicate threads you created) read to me, it seemed that you were kind of glib about the situation. Apparently, I read things wrong.
 
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