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I picked this up off of a couple of other sportbike sites. Some of you have probably already seen it.

First is an eyewitness account, followed by a couple of newspaper links, followed by what is supposed to be a video which I couldn't get to work for me

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Grabbed this from an RC51 forum. Text is from the guys first hand view,
below that are links to the actual news articles. Makes you think, at least
me.

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Yesterday I rode out with two friends to Area 51 in Somewhere, FL - at least
that's what all the tee shirts read. You've all heard the urban legends of
that mystery land in Florida where developers go in and buy a few thousand
acres, lay down roads (neglect to lay plumbing or electrical infrastructure)
and make little subdivisions they try to sell to unsuspecting seniors and
the most gullible of us. This was that area, it's some 15 years old and lies
south of Sarasota / Brandenton area off I75. Secluded, secluded, secluded -
remotely placed miles from most anything but the very basics. Imagine a
gigantic subdivision with no homes, no streetlights, hell they didn't even
name the streets.
And certainly, no cops.

We went there to see a "Motorcycle Stunt Show Extreme" as it was billed.
Teams of people similar to the starboys and such. Normally I steer clear of
such squidly lovefests but I'd never been to such an event and curiosity got
the better of me so I went. Don't misunderstand me, I couldn't ride a
wheelie more than 20 feet if you held a gun to my head. I only rode them on
a dirtbike as a kid, we've all done that, but on the street? nah.

We saw the result of many years of practice and for what it was, it was
impressive. You name it, these guys could do it. Sitting on the tank with
their legs flung over the windscreen riding gixxer1000 wheelies 250 feet
down the road, 2 and 3 up wheelies, tail grinds, 50 foot stoppies, high
speed opposing wheelie passes with no hands. I was frightened for many of
them but they rode with a confidence seemingly obtained through training and
determination. On guy indeed had it down, he was the leader of M.I. Xtreme
out of Merritt Island, FL -that's where NASA launches the space shuttle -
Carl was his name, early to mid 30's, new GSXR1000 - he was impressive. Not
the average idiot either, good helmet, full leathers and gloves, and riding
sneakers.

Carl was really working the crowd, as he was riding he swung himself around
backward on the bike so he was flying blind, he seemed perfectly at ease
with this position. He hoisted himself up onto the tank, put his feet on the
seat and attempted his wheelie. Twice he failed to signal the stars and we
culd see that he was tiring. He made another pass, reversed his position,
mounted the tank and was flying blind again. He hit the throttle and the
front went skyward. As this was ocurring he also found his weight quickly
transfered to the back of the bike, his arms were behind him and gravity
took over. Continuing to twist the throttle as he began to lose control and,
I believe, he made a decision to bail out rather than face greater disaster.
He was going about 45 +/- mph.

I don't think he realized the consequence of that action before it happened.
Bailing out or falling from a bike going forward, facing the same direction
as you're moving allows you some measure of a controlled fall, facing
backward does not. His feet hit first, his shoes instantly popped off. Next
his butt hit and slammed the back of head to the ground with more force than
humans were designed to take. The first thing I saw was his face shield had
popped off the helmet after he came to a stop, he was only about 15 feet
from me. I could not see through his shield as it was covered in blood. The
crowd swarmed him and tried to offer what menial medical support we could
muster but there was no true medical resources at our disposal.
His head literally exploded inside his helmet, there was a pool of blood 3
feet around in a matter of seconds. EMT's wouldn't get there until someone
could hop on a bike, go find them, and lead them back into this maze of
abandoned subdivision. 15 minutes maybe. We left, as we could offer no help,
didn't really need to be spectators as his friends were breaking down, and
shallow as it may seem we didn't want to deal with the cops.

It was a bad end to a day that we otherwise would have laughed about and
shared some cool photos as we talked how wide the chicken stripes on their
tires were. Don't encourage this behaviour, people actually die doing this
stupid sh*t. Take it to the track where the ambulances are, go fast and get
better with your machines; but these illegal dangerous stunt shows organized
by some 18 year old idiot with no medical support or backup will end
tragically. I know most of us do not, but it merits repeating, don't do
stupid things - the price is too high.


Herald Tribune article on this death <http://www.heraldtribune.com/2news.cfm?ID=58125>
Follow-up article <http://www.heraldtribune.com/2news.cfm?ID=58199>
<http://www.heraldtribune.com/realmedia/motor.rm>
 

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Pete said:
...The first thing I saw was his face shield had
popped off the helmet after he came to a stop, he was only about 15 feet from me....

... I could not see through his shield as it was covered in blood...
Is this a contradiction?
 

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Very Daring

Sounds like a pretty tough stunt. Couldn't imagine trying it myself, but if I did.....on a Gixxer 1000, I couldn't imagine not being able to do it either. Furthermore, if I couldn't do it on a Gixxer 1000 I certainly wouldn't be out trying to do it in front of a crowd of people. The adrenaline had to racing through his blood...("you could tell he was trying....")

Lastly, what type of helmet was that??? Not trying to say it's hard to believe the spectators account, but I crashed wearing an Arai once going 100 and once going about 40. Even crashed wearing a Shoei going about 50 knocked me out, but each time I smacked my head pretty good....Not trying to say that he wasn't wearing high quality equipment, but looking at the clips of him on mixtreme.com, it looked like the basic HJC.......

Wear your gear, don't skimp and think about what you're doing....


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Discussion Starter #5
Re: Re: Stunt Riding Gone Bad

Paul748S said:


Is this a contradiction?
I was thinking that he was just saying that for effect, i.e., the shield was laying on the ground so covered with blood that you couldn't see through it. I dunno, though.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Re: Very Daring

Paul 750 said:
Lastly, what type of helmet was that??? Not trying to say it's hard to believe the spectators account, but I crashed wearing an Arai once going 100 and once going about 40. Even crashed wearing a Shoei going about 50 knocked me out, but each time I smacked my head pretty good....Not trying to say that he wasn't wearing high quality equipment, but looking at the clips of him on mixtreme.com, it looked like the basic HJC.......

Wear your gear, don't skimp and think about what you're doing....


Not this argument, AGAIN? ;) Paul, seriously, where do you get that an Arai protects your head any better than a "basic HJC?"
 

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Re: Re: Very Daring

Pete said:
Not this argument, AGAIN? ;) Paul, seriously, where do you get that an Arai protects your head any better than a "basic HJC?"

AHH AHHHH AAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! :finger:
 

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60% on a test is a passing grade. Do you want the helmet that barely recieved Snell certification or the one that exceeds it? Poke....prod......:D :twofinger
 

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Re: Re: Very Daring

Pete said:


Not this argument, AGAIN? ;) Paul, seriously, where do you get that an Arai protects your head any better than a "basic HJC?"
Oh I'm sorry, His helmet must have been a poor fit. So HJC should stop selling their lids over the internet and through mail order also!!!

All I'm saying is that the speed they said he was going, ws no where near the type of impact needed to have your shield bloodied.....

but to answer your question PETE, I BELIEVE THAT ARAI MAKES A MUCH BETTER HELMET!!! THEY HAVE BEEN AND CONTINUE TO DO SO!!

I'm sorry yet another of our brothers died, and from my standpoint, he wasn't wearing the best gear!!
 

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Too Hot!!

I can never leave this argument......primarily cuz all the newbies show up with their bad ass R6/1 GSXR CBR and wear the cheapest helmet the dealer had in the stock that day. Why?? Cuz they got it thrown in!!

P<----------pissed off
 
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Birdman said:
60% on a test is a passing grade. Do you want the helmet that barely recieved Snell certification or the one that exceeds it? Poke....prod......:D :twofinger
What helmets are rated at 60%?
 
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Re: Re: Re: Very Daring

Paul 750 said:


Oh I'm sorry, His helmet must have been a poor fit. So HJC should stop selling their lids over the internet and through mail order also!!!

All I'm saying is that the speed they said he was going, ws no where near the type of impact needed to have your shield bloodied.....

but to answer your question PETE, I BELIEVE THAT ARAI MAKES A MUCH BETTER HELMET!!! THEY HAVE BEEN AND CONTINUE TO DO SO!!

So because you "believe" it, I am supposed to take that as the truth? Where does your belief come from? I'll be honest and say that I don't know for certain whether or not Arai is better in crash protection than the basic HJC, or worse, or the same. I'm just asking for proof.
 

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Pete said:


What helmets are rated at 60%?
Just using that as an example to demonstrate that having the same certification does not make them equal. I don't know what any of their numbers are. HJC may perform better for all I know. I actually think that a lot of the expense is for comfort and finish quality more than "extra" safety. I've worn HJC, Shoei, Arai, and Suomy back to back and the higher dollar lids feel like an easy chair for my head and have more "features". Doesn't necessarily make them safer. Like I indicated, I was just stoking the coals. (But not looking at the mantle):D ;)
 

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Proof??

Pete certainly you're not trying to tell me you've never read any article reviewing helmets.....

I read the article when Bike magazine (I believe) interviewed Mr. Arai and asked what made his headgear so much better? His response was something to the effect that Arai subjects they helmets to all sorts of abusive tests that go far and beyond the Snell and DOT tests.

In our past discussion of helmets, you said hte magazines were biased....Well let's ask the racers....."Mr. Racer, if I pay you three million dollars, will you please wear my helmet.....it's not the safest, but I need to sell more of them, plus here's three million dollars....."

From SBK to AMA to CCS you're not going to find someone with an unlimited budget wearing a garbage helmet. Sorry!! Now the new guy makes the case that he can't afford a six hundred dollar helmet?? Well up until Arai cut off the internet you could get an Arai Quantum/f or Signet/gt <----Both Shapes!!! For $381!!

So, show me your proof, that HJC is anywhere as good as an Arai/Shoei


P<-------putting his foot in Pete's mouf'
 

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KLRAdam said:
That actually would be nice to have. If anybody knows people who work for the snell certification, get us lid test results!
but unfortunately Snell operates on a PASS/FAIL standard. In their opinion an HJC is just as strong as a Arai.

Call Snell and ask them if you don't trust me.

916) 331-5073 or 1-888-SNELL99
 

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Re: Proof??

Paul 750 said:
From SBK to AMA to CCS you're not going to find someone with an unlimited budget wearing a garbage helmet. Sorry!!

So, show me your proof, that HJC is anywhere as good as an Arai/Shoei


P<-------putting his foot in Pete's mouf'
As I play both sides.........

Steve Crevier
Jason Pridmore
Tom Kipp
Aaron Yates

All wear HJC helmets. This foot in mouth thing is contagious.....:) ;)
 

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Paul, there are a few racers that wear HJC helmets, and are not paraplegics.

I'd guess that the poor guy who died has probably crashed on his helmet before. It's part of the nature of stunting. That makes his helmet weaker. Also, we don't know what his health was like. He could have had some minor or major medical issues that contributed to what happened to him.

Admittedly, I won't wear any helmet other than Shoei, Arai or Suomi, but I acknowledge that that is more my own paranoia than having any basis in reality. I've been in three car accidents, my noggin is relatively sensitive, so as a placebo, I feel safer wearing a top of the line Arai. I'm quite sure a nice HJC would protect me as well as my 'spensive one. The HJC does not have adequate venting however, and as you know, that's really important out here.

The point is, we don't know what kind of helmet that guy was wearing, but there are probably more factors than just make and model.
 

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EXACTLY!!

KLRAdam said:


but unfortunately Snell operates on a PASS/FAIL standard. In their opinion an HJC is just as strong as a Arai.

Call Snell and ask them if you don't trust me.

916) 331-5073 or 1-888-SNELL99
I'm not putting my head in a pass fail course. I'm putting my head in a live die course. As long as Arai has been making helmets, I have grown to trust their reputation. Even in spite of their change in distribution channels, I respect them. They are basically saying "We've got the best helmet on the planet, we want to make sure that each customer knows it and believes it by the way their purchase performs."

I don't look forward to paying full retail, but I'd pay 500+ before I'd "settle" for something that states "Snell" certified as a selling point.


Ask J.D. Power, independent research. Not "Magazine Pay offs"

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Re: Proof??

Paul 750 said:
Pete certainly you're not trying to tell me you've never read any article reviewing helmets.....

I read the article when Bike magazine (I believe) interviewed Mr. Arai and asked what made his headgear so much better? His response was something to the effect that Arai subjects they helmets to all sorts of abusive tests that go far and beyond the Snell and DOT tests.

In our past discussion of helmets, you said hte magazines were biased....Well let's ask the racers....."Mr. Racer, if I pay you three million dollars, will you please wear my helmet.....it's not the safest, but I need to sell more of them, plus here's three million dollars....."

From SBK to AMA to CCS you're not going to find someone with an unlimited budget wearing a garbage helmet. Sorry!! Now the new guy makes the case that he can't afford a six hundred dollar helmet?? Well up until Arai cut off the internet you could get an Arai Quantum/f or Signet/gt <----Both Shapes!!! For $381!!

So, show me your proof, that HJC is anywhere as good as an Arai/Shoei


P<-------putting his foot in Pete's mouf'
I have read several articles, but don't recall seeing anything resembling hard proof that one helmet exceeds another in crash protection.

What Mr. Arai says is far from definitive proof of anything.

Your comment about me saying the magazines are biased - 100% WRONG! I have never said such a thing; you obviously have me confused with someone else.

I see lots of Nolan helmets in GP racing, but I think you believe that racers don't wear the helmets you and I can get off the shelf, so I guess that's a moot point in your eyes.

Maybe you didn't see the addendum to my post, which I edited, to say that I honestly don't know whether one is better than the other. You think you know, so I am asking you for proof of your claim. No offense, but thus far, you have failed.
 
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