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wasaB guyz,

i read somewhere that to shift up, just roll off the throttle, shift up then give gas again. so clutch only needs to to used when shifting down.

is this true? wouldnt this mess up the transmission?

thanx.
 

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True, but I tend to tap my clutch lever just as I shift & in that way I do NOT loose any power/speed when shifting!!
 

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I do upshifts using one finger to pull the clutch. I'm probably pulling it in less than a centimetre, and it gives a nice quick change that isn't clunky in anyway.
I don't think clutchless upshifts will kill your tranny if you're doing them right. I do them every now and then, but I prefer the smoothness of just a little bit of clutch.
 

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i always use clutchless upshift when racing and the rare cases i'm really flyin' on the street.

the box in my gsxr is still together (which is rare, early 2000 750).

when flyin', it works well. at street speeds it doesn't.

just so you know, you really want to have pressure on the shift lever as you're rollin' off the gas. it works better. when it goes up, give it gas.
 

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after reading the posts here, i decided to try this clutchless shifting and it's pretty cool. i have found some of the times when to and when not to use it though. if i'm in traffic or just behind some slow cage driver then i use the clutch. part to mid throttle running it up works great without clutch but full throttle is easier done with clutch. i have run into one problem... when clutchless from fifth to sixth gear ... it sometimes won't seat all the way in gear which gives me a "not so nice" neutral rev way up then clicks back in gear when the revs drop. i guess everyone just has to figure out what works best for them. thanks for the posts guys

chris
 

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on the street i use the clutch (most of the time) but on the track i dont use the clutch to upshift or down shift, down shifting without using the clutch takes some practice, pump the gas once or twice to keep the rpm's up and drop it down a gear. (not recommended for new riders)
 

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Shifting up or down without the clutch puts stress on all moving parts of the tranny and makes the plates wear grooves into the fingers of the clutch basket. Your slowly killing your tranny.
 

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Guys,

I only use the clutch to start out in 1st gear, after that its all "clutchless" shifting. 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd...etc....and usually sit up(no hands) and hold the rear brake then downshift from 4th or whatever(no clutch). Ah, the lazy man's way!

And when I'm riding with my left arm across the tank, I shift without using the clutch then too.

I have an R6 and I've been doing this since 1999 and haven't had any tranny issues.

Goose
 

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I've grenaded two clutch baskets from clutchless shifts. My 94 CR 125, Hinson basket broke during a race. And my old ZX7 too many clutchless shifts on wheelies. The plates wear grooves into the basket fingers. They eventualy get deep, the clutch then has a sticking problem. The basket slowly gets weaker till the fingers snap off. But hey, your bike is your bike. Ride it like you see fit. I beat my RR harder than most people treat a wounded horse.
 

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yeah, on my zx6r and my fzr1000 i frequently upshift and sometimes down shift (hands free) and nothing has happened to either... just make sure you know where the sweet spot is....
 

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Go ahead............And think clutchless. Wait until you have to replace the following parts:

1) Shift drum = $90.00
2) Shift forks = $18.00+ each
3) Input/Output gears = $35.00 - $100.00+ each (x 12 cogs)
4) Clutch basket = $ 75.00 - $250.00

THIS IS WHAT YOU MAY PAY FOR YOUR "COOLNESS"! :twofinger

Simply.........The machine was "designed" for clutch actuation. If the "design" was to be clutchless then IT WOULD BE OEM ON YOUR RIDE.

To each his own........"Common sense will dictate"! :thumb:


Johnny
Team No Limit Racing &#169 1996-2002
http://www.teamnolimitracing.com
 

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It just makes no sense to make clutchless shifting a hobby. It almost seams that many people are determined to destroy their own bikes, and for what reason? I see so much of this kind of thing. My customers are always shocked to discover the consequences of doing endless wheelies, stopies, failing to change their oil or even to check it. Shifting without the clutch is just more of the same.

It is relatively easy to shift without the clutch. The problem is, that if everything isn't just right, you'll wind up giving the shifting dogs a good thrashing. Jammin_Johnny's cost estimate is actually way too low. You'll be paying for removing the engine, splitting the cases, replacing seals and other costs. We should be going out of our way to find better ways to extend the life of our bikes, instead of opening the door to ever kind of abuse that comes along. I would much rather spend my money on custom wheels, Corbin seats, and performance goodies, etc, than fixing things.
 

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i'm not arguing, but maybe one of you could explain.

i have a 14 year old race bike that shifts just fine. i know it was raced as long ago as 1995 (probably longer, but that's when the first receipts for race-parts show up). so at the very least that's 7 years of track abuse. several of those have been clutchless. and for a late-80's yamaha it shifts pretty darn nice. actually, i think it shifts a little but better than my 2 year old gsxr750. which as i stated before, i used the clutch on more often than not. btw, thanks suzuki for that bullet-proof trans. :rolleyes:

i do understand that most trans parts were A LOT stronger then than now (they don't make them like they used to). but i still think it's the fastest and safest way down the track.

johnny, you guys don't use an electric shifter or anything on your drag bikes? i mean an electric shifter is really doing the same thing. when i'm really hitting my groove on the track and making up time, i'll used the rev-limiter to act as one. but most of the time, i try to avoid using too much over-rev.
 

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What a load of crap some of you guys talk!!:finger:
Clutchless gearchanges are OK as long as you get the revs right and use the correct amount of pressure with the foot.
I have used clutchless upshifts on numerous bikes over the past 20+ years and have never had any problems with the "tranny" on any of the bikes, one of them did 60K of trouble free clutchless changes.

I've seen this question raised before in different biking magazines and the answer usually advocates clutchless upshifts but not downshifts.

You're right fzr1000 find the sweet spot and ease it in:thumb:
 

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Hey TONY! (be cordial first) Hey all! :thumb:

Let's get this ball rollin' a bit. I will address some of these comments.

First of all.........Comparing a machine of 14 years to the current standard is plainly WRONG. Why do I say this? The machines of yesterday were much heavier, GREATER amounts of heat treated steel compared to some of the alloys used today (especially aluminums). Secondly, there is a GREAT disparity in HP from say a 600cc from 1988 to say a ZX6R from 2000. Furthermore............MAINTENANCE = LONGEVITY (in the majority of cases)!!! If a machine is RACED, yet well MAINTAINED the service life of the machinery shall fair quite well. BUT THIS TAKES VIGILANCE IN THE MACHINE's MAINTENANCE! ;)

Let me say this...........I will take my ride to the strip.........You on yours (preferably a 600)........And post better reaction times, better 60' times, less missed shifts, better overall pass than you. ALL THIS WITH USING FULL CLUTCH ACTUATION. Time for the "average" rider is w/o great diparity between "clutchless" and "clutched" gear selecting. Talking unnecessary damage to a machine is fruitless to the vegetable.........Therefore off to the next point.

As for the "electric" shift comment. Incorrect on the analogy. The "electric" shift system momentarily, in miliseconds, "kills" the engine to "safely" and w/o damage actuate the gear selection. WARNING! Improperly "timed" shifters CAN and WILL cause transmission damage to an equipped machine. I have a racer friend that thought out-of-the-box this shifter would be the end-all. WRONG.........The timed disruption was set incorrectly.........CAUSING $2,500.00 IN DAMAGE TO HIS ENGINE AND TRANNY.

Some light on a lighter note............

1994 ZX6E, ALL MOTOR, ALL CLUTCH 1.674 60', 7.15 @ 101+ (1/8)
1983 GS1100ES, TURBO+, SHIFTER & BAR 1.62 60', 6.40 @ 112+ (1/8)

Definitely an apples to oranges comparison. But there to prove fact. And YES............The very same pilot, very same track.

Hope this helps! :thumb:


Johnny
Team No Limit Racing &#169 1996-2002
http://www.teamnolimitracing.com
 

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If we all talk CRAP, then thats some truthfull well thought out and perfectly valid CRAP.
 

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Not crap at all.............I would say that more than 23 years of motorcycling experience and 17 in drag racing is more than just crap!

Here's our difference...........Furred bike to hide the abomination compared to those w/o fur. The choice seems evident to me. SBW's Drag Race Forum Moderator!

Ciao! :thumb:


Johnny
Team No Limit Racing &#169 1996-2002
http://www.teamnolimitracing.com
 

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No, i'm with you johnny. Clutchless shifts slowly kill parts. It was posted earlier that anyone who says this talks crap.
 

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I stand corrected......Thanks for the clarification.

TIGER RR aside...........Those that fit this scenario. See ya at the dealer sooner or later.

May your ride be blessed! :D


Johnny
Team No Limit Racing &#169 1996-2002
http://www.teamnolimitracing.com
 
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