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Discussion Starter #1
Could some of you experienced guys weigh in here as to who has what responsibilities (passer, passee) on the track?

As I mentioned on the racebike update thread, I got out on the freeway without mirrors (accidently) and was shocked at the extent of the visual deadspace a full face helmet creates. I only had a little more than 90 degrees off each side.

It would seem to me that the passee would be totally at the mercy of a passing bike and virtually unaware of their presence until the last moment.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
No doubt. And I'm not really trying to continue that discussion here as much as find out more about the subtelties of this. :p

I'm just wondering if the "victim" (no, not Jason ;) ) had any responsibility. Some sort of indicated he did, but the discussion over there got a little too "personal" to feel like I could get much of an answer there.

The accident sounded like the passee was possibly borderline on "holding a clean line", to use Mongrel's terminology. I didn't see it, though, so I don't know.
 

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Must be talking about the 250 GP @ Daytona? As far as the line taken by the 'victim', it was kinda wide and then he ran in on the apex. I guess it could have been the racing line but he was so far to the outside of the turn when disalvo went to pass that it looked like it shoulda/coulda worked, and if he had been just a tenth of a second faster into that turn he would have made it. So it looked kinda close to reasonable but the bottom line is he didn't make a clean pass and the responsibility lays on disalvo.

Also, the first thing I would expect a rider to do after broadsiding someone DOES NOT include throwing a glove down the track. Maybe checking on the poor bastard that was just creamed seems a little more sportsman like? But then, WTF do I know, I don't race yet.:D

Where was this getting discussed earlier Joss? Just currious to here what others are saying. Good luck at Bargy[sp] and your first race, this weekend right?
 

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The lapper's responsibility is to try and keep a consistent line. IMO the line he was using was appropriate on that turn. You could probably watch that same lapper and see basically the same line being used on each lap(just guessing of course). If you watch it carefully, it isn't much different than the line Sorensen was getting ready to take and that is part of why Jason was able to pass him inside on the brakes. The guy was taking an appropriate line for someone on a privateer 250. Wide and smooth is what you have to do to keep the revs up.

Jason just misjudged the speed differential and got burned for it. I didn't see it as a malicious move. I do have a real problem with throwing the glove toward the track but other than that not really.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well... as long as we are on the subject... :D

From the descriptions, sounds like no more than a dumb gamble that failed, something that occurs universally in sports.... and life, really.

It would be "dumb" because he put so little potential gain on so big a risk; gambled the whole race with an existing 1st place in the bag, against passing a non-contending "lapper" at that poorly selected spot. Impetuous. Thoughtless. Careless. Etc, etc. Hell of a great lesson, though. Something a guy would never forget.

Do you think the glove-toss at the track was intentional or could have been coincidental? Guy's has a terminal case of the a$$ and tosses his glove... just happens to be pointed the wrong way at the time?
 

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Joss said:

Do you think the glove-toss at the track was intentional or could have been coincidental? Guy's has a terminal case of the a$$ and tosses his glove... just happens to be pointed the wrong way at the time?
Since he pulled it off facing away from the track, hesitated then turned around, mouthing off(could see the jaws moving) then threw it directly at the track... I'm going with yes. :eek:
 

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Joss, corner workers will give you a flag color to tell you when to hold the line because you are about to be passed, at least if they have time to do that in advance, so you needn't worry about looking back.

"Passer" is responsible for making a clean pass, but the "passee" cannot escape blame if he/she is a total bumblesnoot and is moving side to side unpredictably.

That is, UNLESS there is a lot of traffic passing you already and you are going to make a change in your line of travel (as in, engine or mechanical failure to get to the side of the track, or some tactical reason). So you might have to turn your head in some cases.

One other thing, the "passer", when overtaking right before or during a turn, should whenever possible, overtake a slower bike on an INSIDE LINE so that if the "passee" loses it, the centrifugal force on the turn will take them away from you, not INTO you (if you pass on their outside).
 

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apexismaximus said:
Also, the first thing I would expect a rider to do after broadsiding someone DOES NOT include throwing a glove down the track. Maybe checking on the poor bastard that was just creamed seems a little more sportsman like? But then, WTF do I know, I don't race yet.:D
Very well said.

Joss, quit trying to stir up sh!t. :)
Little story about my first race weekend at Roebling and my first wreck ever. I was on a 6R and racing with the 750 heavy weights (I like to mention that! ;) I could only run with the slower mid-pack guys but that isn't the point!). I kept looking for a pass on a guy who was about 4 seconds slower, but I just couldn't get around him. So I decided to pass going into T5...on the inside. This was based on all his previous entries into the turn. Well, he cut in earlier than previous laps and it looked like I was going to clip his rear. So I kind of over-reacted, stood it up and went into the grass. Silly me, I was just releasing the brakes into the green stuff, and suddenly the front end washed out. I have been teased about this endlessly by so-called friends, but I would of felt horrible if I had taken him out.
So, I have 2 tips for you.
Don't force a pass, it is the passers responsibility to it clean and safely. Be patient
And don't pass into turn 5 while you are new. You will understand when you go through the turn! :D
And believe me, you will be passing someone this weekend. There is always someone who is slower! ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Jon, my greatest goal in life is to just learn from your mistakes. That was a good one and I am imprinting it on my brain. Please keep sharing. :D

Hurry though. I'm quite old with little time left. :p
 

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fuster said:
Joss, corner workers will give you a flag color to tell you when to hold the line because you are about to be passed, at least if they have time to do that in advance, so you needn't worry about looking back.

Not in the USA. That is used in world competition. :(

Actually I should clarify, not in AMA, WERA or CCS. I don't know about other racing clubs.
 

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Joss said:
Jon, my greatest goal in life is to just learn from your mistakes. That was a good one and I am imprinting it on my brain. Please keep sharing. :D

Hurry though. I'm quite old with little time left. :p
Don't worry, if it fit in Jon's brain it can't take too long or take up much room. :D:p
 

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RCjohn said:


Not in the USA. That is used in world competition. :(

Actually I should clarify, not in AMA, WERA or CCS. I don't know about other racing clubs.

WMRRA they do, I think OMRRA does, but I have not raced in a few years, so cannot say for sure they still do, but I would think they would not delete that rule.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
"Don't worry, if it fit in Jon's brain it can't take too long or take up much room. :D :p "

John, I'm just worried sick that he is out there, probably even as we speak, making tons and tons of useful (and entertaining :) ) mistakes.... WITHOUT witnesses... and probably keeping them completely to himself. The waste. :(

It is good that Roebling is coming up soon, so much of this can be documented for postertity. :D
 

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Hey schleprock, was that posted twice for double sarcasm? :D


Actually I am at home tonight. I have to be at work at 6:15 tommorrow morning. So I am sitting here playing on the computer, loading a couple programs, and working on the website pages.
Funny you should mention gray matter. The local high school brain bowl is on tv. God damn these kids are smart! But I could still kick thier asses. At least I have that. I know they practice and study, but golly! From the hip I am answering about 20%, not much compared to them answering @80-90% correct as teams of 4.
 
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