Sportbike World banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I was riding today on some back roads and ended up in the dirt twice:eek: I came into a corner to hot and grabbed a fist full of breaks and ended up checking out some vegitation on the high side of the corner. A mile later the road turns right but you cant tell till your there and there a dirt road that kind of goes strait and looks like the raod at first. Well needless to say i went straight and and enduroed my bike for quite a while. I stopped 5 feet from a pine tree that I thought I was going to hug. This is my delema. When Im cruising a windy highway I can hall ass and feel comfortable setting into the corners. When I get on the back roads I have a hard time comiting to to the corners. I guess its because I'm in tighter corners. I talking 15-20 mph corners with no centerline and the pavement is a little ruff in spots. I just need ed to vent cause twice in the dirt in one day sure can [email protected] up your confidence. Granted I never went down(damn close)Does any one else out there have the same problem or did and figure it out cause I sure could use some advise :) Thanks .Adam
sticky side down and try to stay put of the dirt:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
Ahhh Grasshoppa........

I'm by NO means an expert rider. Like others, I try to learn something new every day I ride. Even on days I don't ride I might peruse an article on riding or two. Consider yourself among friends here, and don't be bashful about asking. It's how we all learn.

Couple things to keep in mind when agressively cornering:

* Head level
* Look THROUGH the turn
* In slow, out fast
* If in doubt, late apex everything

I'm sure that you've got some riding buddies that'll be more than happy to let you practice with them. After all, practice makes perfect. Also, consider some riding schools, track days, or even a book or two. "A Twist of the Wrist" comes to mind.

Good luck, and don't let your recent "experiences" get in the way of learning how to do it right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
322 Posts
I definately agree with the late apexing thing, it gives you more options on blind corners. Also try and get all your braking done before you enter the corner, trail braking will make the bike harder to turn and can give you a sense of going too fast for the corner even if its not the case.
Knowing the road is one of the biggest things too, you're gonna kill yourself if you go in without an idea of what to expect.
Practice transfering your body weight, even a little bit can make the bike feel more confident in the turns.
And if in doubt SLOW DOWN!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I believe...........

I think problem is my lean meter. After I get to a surtain angle I have a little voice in my head saying ,ahh your getting over a bit far but I know that I'm far from it. I'm sure it takes time to get there . I've ridden a year now and have read "twist of the wrist ll".Its that stupid chicken strip that I have on my tire. It's a 1\8 stripe I can't seem to get scrubbed on my new tire. Sounds like I need a track day:D I'm all ears for more advise, thanx guys Adam.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
256 Posts
Looking through (and beyond) the turn where you *want* to be is probably the biggest contributor to getting through corners easier. The road is so much wider and your apparent speed so much less when you are looking as far ahead as you can see as opposed to 4 feet in front of you. The other major contributor to pucker factor is not knowing the road nor what may lie ahead. You may not be riding faster than the bike's capabilities, but you may be riding faster than your reaction/control input capabilities.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
199 Posts
Its that stupid chicken strip that I have on my tire. It's a 1\8 stripe I can't seem to get scrubbed on my new tire.

Don't get caught up in thinking that because a tire doesn't have a"chicken" or weanie stripe, that it means a person is fast. If you read Twist II, then you know that lots of riders use way too much lean angle when riding. While I don't consider myself a pro, I feel I can somewhat hold my own in the tight stuff. I have a few older friends who can pass me- when I am at almost my full lean- on the outside! Using about 1/3 less ground clearance. While leaning makes good photo ops, its the guys who get the bike turned and upright the soonest (to get on the gas quicker) that are the real pros. Also, in my opinion, be happy with that 1/8 of an inch. If you are reaching that steep of angles on the street regularly you should definitely go to the track. It's always the inattentive driver, random pothole, or loose gravel that will eventually catch up with you. Sometimes being the best of rider isn't enough to save you on the streets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Take it 'easy'

If you are on a road you don't know, you REALLY don't know what's ahead. Not to mention gravel, animals or stopped vehicles. Go a little slower, and practice being smooth, you need that more than ever as speed increases.

The other thing to keep in the back of your mind is: "in 95% of all single vehicle motorcycle accidents, the bike was capable of making the corner successfully." It's your brain that panicks and says "oh sh*t". Not an excuse to override your ability, but just lean it over farther (stay on the throttle) and the odds are real good that all you'll suffer is major pucker factor.:D

Hey, take your time, there is always more to learn, no matter how long you ride.

Be safe, wear your gear.

HTH
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
lean meter

lean meter, I like that. That's my biggest problem. It just takes time to get used to leaning way over... but how much time? I'm still waiting... the tight stuff 15-20mph, that's the worst for me. I don't even enjoy riding roads like that. I'm in hyper awareness, holy shit mode, sphinter so tight it's acting like suction cup on the seat. what does it take to get over that fear of the lean? get me over 30mph and though I'm still not leaning way over, I'm not scared of crashing. the bike feels much more stable at higher speeds, and able to compensate for any mistake I make.

I don't give a damn about my chicken strips, I just want to be faster, like I know I could be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,644 Posts
BobbyDazzler said:
I definately agree with the late apexing thing, it gives you more options on blind corners. Also try and get all your braking done before you enter the corner, trail braking will make the bike harder to turn and can give you a sense of going too fast for the corner even if its not the case.
Knowing the road is one of the biggest things too, you're gonna kill yourself if you go in without an idea of what to expect.
Practice transfering your body weight, even a little bit can make the bike feel more confident in the turns.
And if in doubt SLOW DOWN!!!
lots of good stuff here.

the first you really need to do it slow down. ride a road slow, then a little faster and make mental notes of the changes you saw from slow to medium pace. it may help to ride it slow again, it's time to really get the road into your head. this way corners don't pop on you so fast.

also remember 70-100% of your braking on a streetbike (on the street) is done with the front tire.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
298 Posts
Turn-in point

Along the same lines as the posts that suggest late-apexing, pay close attention to your turn-in point. The tendency is to turn in too soon, putting yourself on a trajectory that leads into the weeds. In the really lame illustration below, note that the blue path requires the rider to slow down and lean over more at mid-corner just to stay on the road. The red path, OTOH, requires just one steering input and no mid-corner braking.

Practice--at a comfortable speed--turning in at a point that permits you to get all your steering done once. Another benefit is that you can get on the throttle sooner, as soon as you're done with that single steering input.

BTW, this is pure Keith Code Twist II. Review his steering principles and the "two-step" technique for a much better explanation than this one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
624 Posts
yzfast said:
This is my delema. When Im cruising a windy highway I can hall ass and feel comfortable setting into the corners. When I get on the back roads I have a hard time comiting to to the corners. I guess its because I'm in tighter corners. I talking 15-20 mph corners with no centerline and the pavement is a little ruff in spots. I just need ed to vent cause twice in the dirt in one day sure can [email protected] up your confidence.
Forget confidence, you're lucky to be alive! From your quote you already know what the problem is - slow down (especially on new roads) and practice your technique. This will allow you to stay relaxed and trust your bike to get you thru the tight corners.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
As a previous member meintioned, A TWIST OF THE WRIST 2 is the bible for anybody learning extreme riding.

A couple tips.....

*through the corner put your weight on the OUTSIDE peg....if making a left turn pur your weight on the RIGHT peg, & vice versa)

*look THROUGH the turn. Monitoring your immediate path will get you on the shoulder every time.

*When possible, avoid braking while cornering. BY Jamming the breaks you overload the front end; by this meaning that idealy you want to be on the throttle. Being on the the throttle through the corner will give you the desired weight distribution on the bikes chassis that is suitable for optimum handling. Hitting the breaks overloads the front wheel and that's why she wants to wobble and run wide.

*IMPORTANT: If you're getting your cornering down, find a good set of non-busy roads and keep practing in one area so you know what to expect. Go SLOOOOOW. And build yourself up. In this process you'll see what does and does not agree with the
machine.

ABOVE ALL BE CAREFUL:)

Hope this helped...

Regards:cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Get "Twist" 1 & 2

I would have to agree with almost everyone, but more so with the last Code "quotes" and guidelines.

I am no expert in racing, but I am pretty close to street riding. After riding 13 plus years, Code's books have opened my eyes to the science of riding. What is working well for me now is reading his book and then practicing certain techniques out on the road. There is this saying in racing that I am sure you have heard of, both in two-wheel and four-wheel, "when in doubt, accelerate!" While Keith Code does talk about this concept, the whole art of the throttle will help you understand what the bike is doing while in the turn. What others have pointed out to you is just a small piece of a very large puzzle when it comes to riding. The golden 40/60 weight distribution, your entry point, mid-turns, exits, survival reactions, products, sub-products, rolling off the throttle, cracking the throttle, double apex, decreasing radius, off camber, positive camber, $10 worth of attention, target fixation, braking zone, coasting zone, accelerating zone, and finally the all profound concept of counter-steering. It's well worth the few bucks and time to read Code's two books.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,547 Posts
Mostly it sounds like you have to get more comfortable with greater lean angles and getting to them FAST.

Obvious, but hey what do you expect from free advice!!:twofinger

Anyway, find some nice constant radius corners and run them over and over. Obviously a track day would be best but it can be done on the street too. On/Off ramps can work great if you have some nice 270 degree turns, nice run off, no curbs etc. Otherwise just go find some of the corners that are giving you fits and practice practice practice.

What gear do you have? If you're not in full leathers I wouldn't suggest pushing any further on the street to begin with??

Later and good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
thanxs for all the input

Thanks for all the input guys. I need to go slower and learn the road better before I try to hammer it. I've ridden it 5 times so far and I learn a little every time. As for gear, alls I need is leather pants and I'm set. Has anyone read the soft sience of motorcycle racing? Should I read that too? Well I'm going to read twist of the wrist ll agian so I can refresh my memory. Thanxs agian guys. Adam
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
379 Posts
I thought it was a good graphic. perhaps I was on the blue line when I low sided in the grass along side the road.

Note; Red is good. and less painful
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
when I first read "put your weight on the OUTSIDE peg" I thought what?!? But this weekend I went out and tried it. it made me feel like part of the bike, anchored on good and tight. Not just sitting on the bike... great peice of advice. thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
lean meter, I like that. That's my biggest problem. It just takes time to get used to leaning way over... but how much time? I'm still waiting... the tight stuff 15-20mph, that's the worst for me.
I used to have the same problem. If you know somebody that is a skilled and experienced rider than hop on the back of their bike and let them take you through the turns. A friend of mine did this to me and I really got a feel for how far the bike can lean and still
maintain traction. As far as the front brake thing when your in the middle of a turn.....don't do that anymore! If your overcooked in the turn stay on the throttle and press down harder on the inside grip. Trust your tires and think that the 20mph turn your taking can be hit at 90mph by the pros. (but don't try it). And get some leather or textile pants. Jeans are for scooters.
Good Luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
twist of the wrist II

I just got and read twist of the wrist II (I ordered the first one, but they sent me II by mistake, I'm getting the exchange)

I feel like I have missed alot by not reading TOTW 1 first, BUT, I have recognized many mistakes, and the book was a great read. I got alot and recommend it.

I :

turn too slow
turn too soon
don't commit to unfamilar corners or plan a turn in point.
Need better throttle control

Reading about how many functioon of the bike can be adjusted by simple throttle contorl make so much sense now.

I just went for a easy ride with a few fun corners, tried all of the tricks from the book, and I'm happy with the results, now practice practice practice :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
As someone who can get WAY too preoccupied with "details", I've found sometimes it's best to take a step back from all of the advice...all of the books...and apply Occam's Razor to the situation; in the case of motorcycling - look where you're going, and turn the [email protected]#ing bike.

(That was not meant to denounce anyone's advice...or motorcycling advice in general. I know there are constants regarding form and technique that must always be applied. This post is about..."intangibles". Hopefully, you'll see what I mean :))

Do you golf? The worst thing in the world is to have your head full of "swing thoughts" when you're addressing the ball. In motorcycling, I have been at my worst, and had the least amount of fun, when I approach a corner, think about where my butt should be on the seat...oh, and is my head positioned correctly? Am I in the right gear?...what does my tach read?...the speed limit is 35, can I make it without ploughing the front end?...and so on. Not fun. Rather...Are you comfortable? Are you relaxed? Just turn the [email protected]#ing bike. :)

If you're intent on taking certain turns (far) exceeding the speed limit, here's a key piece of advice: Do NOT look at your speedometer...nothing will make you panic and "straighten up" like that will. You can use your speedo as a gauge, but do it far before the turn and then FORGET ABOUT IT. The turn then becomes about visual data acquisition regarding ONLY the turn itself. I can't tell you the number of times I have prepared for a turn and at the last minute glanced at the speedo, had the dreaded "rationality gremlins" kick in, grab a bit of brake, and be halfway through the corner kicking myself in the ass because:

1. I'm far slower than I could have been going (safely, even).

2. I wimped out; which is a very deflating feeling, as we all have experienced.

I have no desire to get a knee down on the street or any such thing; but I DO want to have confidence in myself, and my bike, 100% of the time. That is the goal to strive for, instead of being able to take turn A at xx mph.

Always be relaxed, and ride within your limits; it is guaranteed that those limits will eventually be elevated, its just a matter of patience. I've found that all you achieve by riding over your head is apprehension and fear. If you have to take a corner at xx speed 100 times before you try xx+5, then so be it. At least the odds are in your favour that you'll emerge from the exit alive and in one piece. Be smart.

I was cursed with a high "rationality" component, and sometimes fight with the risk vs. gain equation in motorcycling. My own progress is slow and deliberate (to me anyway). However, the sense of accomplishment is that much greater when you realize that you didn't have to take that corner at a gazillion mph to show how big your balls were, you did it because you worked hard to get there, doing it the right way, and will be able to do it the next time...and the next...

Don't ever feel like you have something to prove. Just have fun.

Well...this post is far longer than I intended. Sorry 'bout that. :)

Robert
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top