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Discussion Starter #1
I am selling a 1995 Nissan 240sx.... I know, not a bike, but we have talked so much about these sales fraud schemes lately.

I got an e-mail from a supposed dealer in the UK that says he wants to buy the car for the full amount I am asking for a client. I am pressing him for details... This doesn't sound quite like those schemes so far... What do you guys think?

Comments: HELLO,
I AM AN AUTO/SPEAR PARTS DEALER IN LEICHESTER UK. AND I HAVE AN
INTRESTED BUYER FOR YOUR VEHICLE AND IS WILLING TO OFFER $5,000.
PLEASE KINDLY REPLY AS SOON AS YOU CAN.
REGARDS,
GREG McAVOY.

I replied:
Greg,

I am willing to sell the vehicle for $5000 USD. How would you move the vehicle, and how would you arrange payment?

Kevin


he replied:

KEVIN,
THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPLY, THE SHIPMENT AND EVERY OTHER CHERGES WILL BE HANDLED BY MY CLIENT.HE WILL ISSUE YOU A CASHEIR'S CHECK FOR YOUR PAYMENT.SO, I NEED THE FOLOWING INFORMATION FOR PAYMENT TO BE DELIVERD.
...................LEGAL NAME (as to be written on the check).
...................MAILING ADDRESS.
...................PHONE NUMBER(s)
THANK'S
GREG.

I then replied:

Greg,

In light of some highly publisized recent overseas sales schemes, I'd like a little bit more information. What bank will the cashiers check be drawn on? How will the car be delivered? Will a representative of your client come to my home to pick up the car? Is your client in the US or in the UK?

I'm not trying to complicate the sale, I just need a bit more information.

Thank you
Kevin




I am still waiting to hear his reply. What do you guys think?
 

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Strength and Honor
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So far, none of the info's stuff that can't be easily gleaned from Google. You're taking the right track, no doubt. If possible, get a phone number from him, in addition to an address for his business and check on them. That'll be further support for your own security.

If they're willing to send the check and allow it to clear into your account before release of the car, I say go for it! You've really got nothing to lose then, do you?

EDIT: Oh, be sure to give him a work phone number and address. This would complicate (slightly) any identity theft plans.
 

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You know the old saying, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I wouldn't do it. You'll end up giving your car away, IMO.
 

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Why the hell would someone from the UK want to buy a 240sx from the states? They could probly get one over there for like $3k. Theres a couple guys from a WRX board that moved there and bought Skylines for like $10-$20k. I would have deleted the email as soon as I read he was form the UK. Even if he was legit, you could get what you`re asking over here, and not have to go through all the trouble of figuring out where a shipper is, and then getting it there, and then worry about everything working out with the title and what not... I say forget it.
 

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There are many different angles that have been worked in these scams.

One angle is the check itself. From what I understand, it goes something like this. What they do is give you an official looking document from an overseas bank that you deposit and your bank then processes for their payment. Because of your bank's policy that states they won't hold funds for more than example, five days, they credit the amount to your account, which you use to indicate it cleared (sounds logical), but then several weeks later, when the check proves to be bad, the bank withdraws the funds from your account. The car is gone and so is your money. You are still responsible for the funds because yours was the last signature on the check. You'll receive the check back to persue collection from the previous signer, probably the issuer, but you'll not be able to find him and you'll be screwed. As in all check deals, the last signatory is responsible for the funds, working its way back to the originator. If there were five signers, it works its way back until somebody can't collect from the previous, and he becomes the one who got screwed. If you somehow proceed, discuss this concern with your bank and don't release the car until the bank tells you they have been satisfied completely.

The other is when they come up with schemes, however convoluted, that result in them having your bank account number and/or your signature. They may start the process some other way that appears legitimate, but then call you with the, ".... oh yeah we forgot or, the bank said... or, but we need your acct. number for X,Y,Z reason".

Are those cars that hard to find, that desirable, or that much cheaper over here that the deal sounds like it has any legitimacy?:confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Dad said:

Are those cars that hard to find, that desirable, or that much cheaper over here that the deal sounds like it has any legitimacy?:confused:

Some 240's are rare. This one is not. Its bone stock, with an automatic tranny. That was one of my first red flags. Second, why would someone EVER offer what I am asking? That doesn't make any sense at all.

I had already planned that if this deal went forward, that I would not release the car untill the check cleared the issuing bank, which is why I asked what bank it would be drawn on. I was also thinking about asking him if I could pick the bank it was drawn on. It wouldn't be that hard to wire money to a remote bank, and have them issue a cashiers check to customer.

I hadn't even considered the identity theft angle. I had considered providing some of that information in my last reply, I am sure glad I didn't. Thank you for pointing that out.

Well, those first 4 e-mails were all exchanged in under an hour. Its now been almost 8 hours since the last e-mail, and no further reply from him. I'm guessing its a scam, and he has moved on.
 

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Kevlar7R said:
I hadn't even considered the identity theft angle. I had considered providing some of that information in my last reply, I am sure glad I didn't. Thank you for pointing that out.
They already tried that? It's not so much just identity theft as it is their ability to have money wired right out of your account. When it's drained, it's gone. I'm not sure of the details, just that it can be done. They'll sometimes use the ruse of needing your account number to wire YOU money.

We used to get these at my work where they wanted to wire money to us as a way to show expenditure on a contract that was completed but had a million or so unspent dollars in a fund. For us doing this, they would allow us to keep half. Obviously, they needed our account number to send us the money. They were usually from African countries who had no legal resiprosity treaties with the US so there wasn't a damn thing you could do about it once they got the money. I have since heard of some operating or claiming to be from Europe where legal treaties exist, but before you were done you would wind up in Botsawana or something. Be careful!
 

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what DAD said is probably wjhtst going on, tell him you want a western union money order, not a bank check, and make sure that you get the casf from western union first. if he says no, he is bsing you...
 

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ask police

There are undoubtedly many folks related to various governments working on catching frauds like this. Ask local police, who to mention it to. It is (most likely) not the only deal a foreign fraud has going and it may be the necessary piece of the puzzle someone needs to catch them.

That said, tell the buyer you will sell car for $4500 CASH in trade for not having to deal with a cashier's check. There is nobody out there who is SERIOUSLY interested in buying anything (not on credit) that couldn't come up with real cash IF they have a properly funded check issued by a real bank.
 

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Man, there is now way anyone, especially someone from the UK, can spell that poorly and still have someone take him and be his "Client"... Walk away... walk away.
 

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Step away as fast as you can. No matter what do not have a thing to do with this so called buyer from now on. You are bound to find out it is a con job or even worse to somehow get into your bank account of plastic money card & put you into a debt you simply cannot pay for.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Got another e-mail from him:

KEVIN,
MY CLEINT IS HERE IN THE UK. AND YOUR MONEY IS TO BE DRAWN FROM A US BANK BUT I DO NOT KNOW WHICH ONE IN PERTICULAR UNTILL I ASK, THE SHIPMENT COST AND EVERY OTHER CHERGES WILL BE DEDUCTED FROM HIS PAYMENT NOT YOUR'S.
THANK'S AND PLEASE DO NOT HESITATE TO ASK SHOULD YOU REQUIRE ANY FUTHER ASSISTACNCE OR HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.
GREG.


I am thinking about going ahead with it, but asking the bank who holds the loan on the car if I can have him make out the cashiers check directly to them.

I started thinking about the identity theft thing, and the information he has asked for is all readily available on the internet. He already has my full name, my phone number was on the ad, and I'm in the phone book, so he can get the other information. Could this really be an identity theft scheme?

Should I just give him my address, say, "Send the check" and tell him that I won't release the car untill the check clears the issuing bank?
 

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You want him to send you a BLANK INTERNATIONAL money order, this way your info can`t be stolen and your sure to get the money in full. Just have it sent to a buddies house or PO box.

Still it sounds alittle odd doesn`t???
They are not rare cars and the shipping & VAT tax will be almost another few $ THOUSAND $$ more.

* * * * * * * * *
< Speedboy3 >
(there is now way anyone, especially someone from the UK, can spell that poorly)

-- Really I post at a english forum and they spell just as bad anybody -

- No way = now way ?? - :)
 

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Somewhere along the way, you're going to be asked for your bank account number and possibly signed paper "for the purpose of direct depositing in your account". Once they have that, you're screwed. I'll bet a net search will find better details on how they work these schemes but I can't imagine this being legit.

If you insist on persuing it, and feel that it's at all legit, then tell them to have their pick-up agent show up with cash, not a cashier's check (another way of beating you out), and you'll complete the transaction there. If that's not OK, that one extra effort on their part, then why is that too much trouble considering that they still have to pick the car up, arrange shipment to a port, overseas packaging, insurance, pick up at port of entry, and ultimate delivery to their customer. Getting cash would be too much trouble?... cash without you signing a cashier's check that makes you the last signatory therefore responsible if at anytime the check surfaces as bad? The whole thing just smells of SCAM. Visit your bank manager. They should be able to shed light on all of this.
 

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Kevlar7R said:
Got another e-mail from him:

KEVIN,
MY CLEINT IS HERE IN THE UK. AND YOUR MONEY IS TO BE DRAWN FROM A US BANK BUT I DO NOT KNOW WHICH ONE IN PERTICULAR UNTILL I ASK, THE SHIPMENT COST AND EVERY OTHER CHERGES WILL BE DEDUCTED FROM HIS PAYMENT NOT YOUR'S.
THANK'S AND PLEASE DO NOT HESITATE TO ASK SHOULD YOU REQUIRE ANY FUTHER ASSISTACNCE OR HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.
GREG.


I am thinking about going ahead with it, but asking the bank who holds the loan on the car if I can have him make out the cashiers check directly to them.
I think you've got the idea. This is a great angle that protects you greatly. Also, demand "GREG"'s telephone number and address. If he is in England, and something goes awry, INTERPOL will want to know about him; you can check his info online. This might significantly shorten your email discussion.

I started thinking about the identity theft thing, and the information he has asked for is all readily available on the internet. He already has my full name, my phone number was on the ad, and I'm in the phone book, so he can get the other information. Could this really be an identity theft scheme?
Yeah, that's what I had pointed out originally. All you need to do at this point is avoid giving him any further personal information. None should be necessary for the transaction.

Should I just give him my address, say, "Send the check" and tell him that I won't release the car untill the check clears the issuing bank?
No, I'd try getting this handled right through your bank, as you mentioned above. I've never heard of this before, but I think its an excellent idea, and if you get the right loan person, its a win-win scenario. They get their money for the loan, and you're privacy is protected. As several have pointed out, any more information than that is totally unnecessary, and will result in something bad (con or identity theft).

:2cents:

Note: Speedboy3 has a good point about spelling. There's no way a professional would have misspellings in their emails, so I'm aligned to believe this is a con, and you'll shortly be asked for an account, an SSN, or some other personal information. Go forward as you see fit.
 

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Credit check

One other note. You should contact the three credit reporting agencies and have a look at your credit reports to ensure they're correct. Typically this should be done anually, which my family does, but I'll bet most on here never have done it unless they were buying a house. I'd aim for March to do the check on your credit.

Use Google to find how to order the reports.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Re: Credit check

kanwisch said:

Use Google to find how to order the reports.
I already know how to do it. I was involved in a lawsuit with a former landlord. My lawyer got me on track with checking my credit periodically. I usually go down to the office, spend the 30 bucks to get the full report from all 3 agencies with scores. If you do the free reports you can get online, it shows up as credit checks on your report. Too many checks can be a negative.
 

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No shit? When you buy it online it shows up as a credit check? That SUCKS!! Thanks for the edumacation, though.

As for the vehicle, yeah, don't sell it. Why go through all of this hassle when there's probably someone right around the corner from you who would want that car? Don't do it.

Try autotrader.com or ebay.com to get rid of it fast.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
It is on Autotrader.com. That is where he found it. I haven't put it in the print autotrader yet, or the paper. I am leary of selling a car on E-bay. I've never done it, I don't know anyone who has done it.

I have had it parked outside with the phone number on it, and got one call. I am thinking I am gonna put it in the paper tomorrow.
 
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