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Discussion Starter #1
Well ladies and gentlemen, I have been away from the blog for a while (mainly because it was winter, but also because the last time I was here was a huge argument). My last post on the site was concerning my purchase of a new Daytona 675. Well, I bought it all the way back in October, and I finally picked it up Tuesday.
Photos:

What do you esteemed and experienced gentlemen think about the break in period. This is my third bike, but first new one, aand I am not sure what to do about the break-in period.
 

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Break in is one of the most debated topics regarding a new bike. There are generally two schools of thought: "by the book" and the "mototune" method here : http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm. I did the by the book method for my zx-6r. But I've been thinking of doing the mototune method on my next bike. My brother in law is a graduate from Wyotech and he beleives in the mototune method.


Nice bike by the way :thumbs2: .
 

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Man, thanks for the post. That alternative break-in method is wild stuff. Unfortunately for me, I rode my bike for the first 30 miles doing the easy method, so according to the article it could be too late for me. I'm sitting at 29 or 30 miles right now, and wonder if it's too late to run it hard.
Come on sportbikes.com "oldheads," chime in. I need more advice, and you guys have always been with me in the past.
 

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ryan summed up reality. Those are the two schools of thought. If you're asking who prefers what, I'd recommend doing lots of research to see which you believe in. Since I've not owned a new bike, I have no idea which I'd choose.
 

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My opinion is that it doesn't matter. You will have sold the bike to a newbie who will have wrecked it before any potential differences in break-in method show up. How many bikes make it to 100,000 miles? Your bike was likely redlined before it left the factory, so the manufacturer's procedure is mostly a safety issue to get used to a new bike. Ride it like you want to. It won't matter unless you're racing, and even then rider skill will make much more difference than engine break-in.

Great looking bike, BTW.
 

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FYI I've have a background in engine design by education, and I even briefly worked in the field before. My opinion of the Mototune method is that it's totally crap.

I think it's a fine way to quickly break in an engine that isn't going to last very long to begin with. If you race, and rebuild every few thousand miles, fine. Otherwise, you're probably going to turn a 100,000 mile engine into a 10,000 mile one.

Here's the thing - during the breakin period, two things are happening:

1. The parts are mating, polishing, and seating themselves. On the cylinder walls, if you do this too quickly, you eat right through the hone pattern.

2. The steel parts, and to some degree the aluminum parts are work hardening on the surface. This takes some time and if you eat through the very thin work hardened layer that forms, you're into metal that wears rapidly.

So do it slowly and you know you won't have any problems. Do it too quickly and it's a crapshoot. A few years ago GM had to recall and replace a couple dozen of it's Corvette ZR-1 engines all because one throttle happy factory delivery guy took it upon himself to "mototune" a bunch of new Corvettes right off the assembly line.
 

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Mister Tee said:
FYI I've have a background in engine design by education, and I even briefly worked in the field before. My opinion of the Mototune method is that it's totally crap.

I think it's a fine way to quickly break in an engine that isn't going to last very long to begin with. If you race, and rebuild every few thousand miles, fine. Otherwise, you're probably going to turn a 100,000 mile engine into a 10,000 mile one.

Here's the thing - during the breakin period, two things are happening:

1. The parts are mating, polishing, and seating themselves. On the cylinder walls, if you do this too quickly, you eat right through the hone pattern.

2. The steel parts, and to some degree the aluminum parts are work hardening on the surface. This takes some time and if you eat through the very thin work hardened layer that forms, you're into metal that wears rapidly.

So do it slowly and you know you won't have any problems. Do it too quickly and it's a crapshoot. A few years ago GM had to recall and replace a couple dozen of it's Corvette ZR-1 engines all because one throttle happy factory delivery guy took it upon himself to "mototune" a bunch of new Corvettes right off the assembly line.

Do you also have a degree in Metallurgy?

Your "engine design" education was likely rooted in old school principles taught by the same old school gearheads who write those old school break in manuals. The same old farts who remember when Ethyl was an option at the pumps.

If you've ever been in a modern racing engine shop you'd know that high performance motors are usually run hard through a few heat cycles on the dyno before being released for use/installation in a vehicle.

I'm not advocating on behalf of mototune, just saying that qualifying a new process against an old one is unintelligent.
 

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Mister Tee said:

1. The parts are mating, polishing, and seating themselves. On the cylinder walls, if you do this too quickly, you eat right through the hone pattern.
had never thought of that...
guess it depends on what the block is made of though...
my engine in my v6 3.8L camaro is IRON and the new rings I put in were STEEL made by Total Seal




I'm gonna do something NOONE has yet to say and say Thats a SHARP looking bike!!!!:thumbs2: :burnout:
 

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I have used something like the mototune method for many years & often sell my bikes after using them for 10 yrs or more---the buyers have never had problems.

Look at the fact I have a '97 Yamaha YZF600r which means it has been used for 10 plus yrs, a '00 Honda 929 though that is only comming into its 8th year & a '03 Honda 954 still in the crate when purchased in August of '04 so latter is not with a lot of yrs use. All are used, during riding weather in Cdn., around 3 to 5 days a week of from 5 to 7+ hrs up in the local mtn roads so they are puttering around town sort of bikes & since I need to fuel up 3 to 4 times a day-----that means a lot of milage AND they last.
 

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>Do you also have a degree in Metallurgy?

It was a large part of the coursework, yes.

>Your "engine design" education was likely rooted in old school principles taught by the same old school gearheads who write those

Okay fine, but basic engine design hasn't changed in over fifty years. What has changed is manufacturing methods (most notably casting methods), better materials, (particularly with modern aluminum alloys), electrical and fuel systems.

I'll agree with you that it isn't necessary, or even desirable to use the same break in methods that were applied to cars 40 years ago, but initial break in is still critical to engine life.

I guess I'll eat my words when I see "moto tuned" engines lasting 100,000 or 200,000 miles. I guess Smitty has offered us testimony to the effect that it can be okay. My guess is some engines are more tolerant to that than others.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well gentlemen, this kind of lively debate is what I love about this forum. Thanks for all the advice, and I will be researching more because I want to make sure that this bike lasts at least 6 years for normal riding, and I never plan to get rid of it.
 

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Mister Tee said:
>Do you also have a degree in Metallurgy?

It was a large part of the coursework, yes.
Ok, but your degree is not actually in Metallurgy. It's like me calling myself an accountant because I had to take a couple accounting classes en route to earning my business degrees. Not to bust your balls, but I have to bust your balls on this. ;) Out of curiousity, what is your degree in?


Mister Tee said:

>Your "engine design" education was likely rooted in old school principles taught by the same old school gearheads who write those

Okay fine, but basic engine design hasn't changed in over fifty years. What has changed is manufacturing methods (most notably casting methods), better materials, (particularly with modern aluminum alloys), electrical and fuel systems.
Define, "basic." Sure, the internal combustion concept, in its simplest form, has not changed much. However, if you're convinced that the engines of 50+ years ago are so similar to those of today try running leaded fuel in your sportbike. Or maybe Ethyl is more your flavor? :huh:


Mister Tee said:
I'll agree with you that it isn't necessary, or even desirable to use the same break in methods that were applied to cars 40 years ago, but initial break in is still critical to engine life.
Absolutely. That's why we're here...


Mister Tee said:
I guess I'll eat my words when I see "moto tuned" engines lasting 100,000 or 200,000 miles. I guess Smitty has offered us testimony to the effect that it can be okay. My guess is some engines are more tolerant to that than others.
I'll be as interested in the long term results as you. Until then, I'm reserving judgement. Let's convince a newbie to use the mototune method on his new bike and we'll keep track of it, like a long term test mule. :thumbs2:
 

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i work next to Prieto racing, im pretty shure Geoff May started out there to. anyways all week long all i hear is the beautiful sound of bikes being tuned on a dyno
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I take great offense to being called a newbie. haha I am neither a newbie to riding, or to owning my own bike. This is my first new bike though.
 

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I didnt want to bring this up because it will get mixed feelings thrown up.

Its a great looking bike, cool frames, smooth looks, such and such.

But the engine, a three cylinder? I dont see how its good at all.
I mean sure, wow, "fresh new idea, three cylinders!, they'll buy it." (executive speak) - the bike has probably been around longer:dunno:

In a I-4 there is always a cylinder firing, simple, smart, and it works.(not to say you have to push your bike)

Granted that the bike does have and extra 75cc for the loss of that forth cylinder = less engine weight, and which leads to more torque; to produce an evenly matched machine

I just dont agree with the three cylinders, in a typical 4-stroke.
What hapens to that 4th stroke?!! & What is the engine firing sequence? strange works in the force, there is


duce (peace sign smilee, that we dont have on this site)
 
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