my first ticket

Actually, there are some mistakes in what's being said here. The Ohio State Highway Patrol just purchased some unmarked vehicles. If you will be in the NE part of the state: Look out!!! I drive the Turnpike every day to and from work; 1hr 15min. each way. The Patrolmen don't always leave their lights on...sometimes only the parking lights. Also, they are keen oon picking up people going the opposite way of their direction of travel. This really sucks, because they will turn around and even if it takes 'em five minutes, they'll get ya'. Trust me on this one. Cops in NE Ohio are friggin' ASSHOLES!!! (the majority that I've met anyway). Be careful, don't fool around. They will find any way possible to nail ya'.

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~Nick
2000 CBR600F4 -
Lost to the Blacktop God. 4,699 miles in under 3 mos. $8,300 worth of damage to my one and only baby. On the brighter side: Can you say 929rr???

This is one topic I do know about. Police and State Troopers do not leave their lights on when running radar. There are a few times when you will see one with their parking lights on but that is the exception and not the norm.

In the state of Ohio their are two highways that are the worst for police and teoopers. I-75 and I-71. You are more likely to get off when pulled over by a city cop. State Troopers will give you some sort of citation 95% of the time. Keep the rubber side down. Also, if a cop passes you going the other way on the highway and you are speeding you may want to use that opportunity to get off the next exit and get gas or proceed to crack the throttle and get out of the area. They are notorious for turning around and coming after you even if they did not clock you.

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Have you ever seen those new speed radar signs? They show you how fast are going, pretty cool idea. The ones, here in Texas, are the X band type with a low power wattage. They are hard to pick up on radar from a long distance, but the best part of the whole deal is this - Every time that I blow past them the speed indicated is much less than I am actually going. I know that there is speedometer errors but I was doing 105 mph and it showed 72 mph. 2 things come to mind, 1st is that being on a bike it is hard to get a correct reading - being a small contact area, 2nd is maybe the real radar guns that cops are using do not actually get the proper speed that we are doing either. I need to blast past one and check it out for myself. Can I get some funds for this experiment for my fellow readers? I will do this for you all in the name of Science

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Todd Hoffmaster
'00 Katana 600
38 speeding tickets and still counting

I'm not too sure about laser- but standard radar guns won't even "see" anything over 200 mph.

I recall reading an article in some car mag once about the ins and outs of radar. It was shown that standard radar becomes less and less effective as the angle of the vehicle in respect to the radar gun changes. Imagine a cop on the side of the road- maybe 1000 feet ahead- if he's pointed the gun straight at your hood while you're travelling towards him and you are ALONE on that part of the road, chances are the reading will be pretty accurate. Same goes for the rear of the vehicle. Now let's say you're travelling with a bunch of other cars, and you are farther away- the "slice" of the area being seen by the radar is much wider and several cars may be caught in that "slice". Now, it's up to the cop to determine who was going the fastest. In the article, and in the court where this was debated- this cross section that the radar sees was dubbed the "bologna slice".

I think the whole case came into being because some egghead who actually made his living working with radar got pulled over for speeding. He got so pissed that he took the city to court to prove that the police department really didn't know all that much about the technology they were using to ticket people with.

Another interesting factoid- how many people buy those radar detectors the you mount inside your car behind the windsheild? A lot probably- turns out that they are only about 50% as effective compared to the ones you mount behind your grill and have seperate displays. Seems automotive glass is terrible for trying to get clean readings through. At least that's what I read....

'cane

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Not that I am any kind of HUGE expert or anything, but I think what 'cane is talking about is called the "angle of convergence". It's more like a slice of pie than a slice of bologna.

As 'cane pointed out, IF the "Target Vehicle" is coming straight at (or away from) the source of the signal, the chances are pretty good that it will provide an accurate reading. If the above mentioned "Target Vehicle" is at an angle beyon 15 degrees, the chances are pretty good the signal will be in error, or at the very least will not be accurate. The "Angle of Convergence" on most commercial model police radar guns is about 15 degrees. Beyond that the reading should be useless. It's a mechanical limitation of the equipment. The converging sides of the radar "horn" (antenna) of the radar gun is about that angle.

To see how this works, find a good steady source of police radar (how about your "speed sign" thingie) and listen to your radar detector go off as you approach it from various angles. Unless there are lots of metal things that the signal is bouncing off of, you will have to get closer and closer to the source at wider and wider angles, up to 90 degrees.

One thing that amazes me are the number of people who have radar detectors pointed at the sky, the curb, themselves, not taking into account the optimum angle of the typical radar source. DUH!!

As far as the detector being being behind the windshield, in theory, there should be no difference. Glass is "transparent" to radar signals. Now, having said that, there are so many additives in auto glass (some manufacturers us various metals to tint the glass, and don't forget in-glass antennas) that there is a good chance that any of the could attenuate the incoming signal. But, you're right, obviously the best place for a detector is out in front, away from any metal that could "confuse" the incoming signal.

So, get out there and practice! Aim that radar dector! Get some tickets and report back!

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"After all, we ARE professionals, here."

Radar detectors used behind those instant defroster windsheilds on some cars (Ford, I think) are useless. I keep mine in the tank bag. Radar goes right through fabric.
You actually can debate how radar works, but in some places, "how" they work is not based upon science, but politics. You have to provide some pretty expensive expert witnesses to refute radar's accuracy. How you win is to show that proper procedures were not followed by the cop, that inadequate records and maintenance were done to the unit, or mistaken identity. The best thing to do is not get stopped. The next best thing is to try to talk your way out. After that, plea bargain...if you get an offer to change it to a bad muffler, take it and skip out.
Some places say the nearest vehicle made the reading (totally bogus) and some say the fastest object made the reading (also bogus). As long as the cops testimony follows what the accepted criteria of a clocking is in that jurisdiction, you won't be able to refute it.

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-Yeeee-haaaaa!

Too bad on the ticket. Sorry to hear anyone gets 'em.
Through the years I have received a lot of tickets and have tried to use some sort of defense to help in not getting them. Like in the 70's when CB Radios were in big use. That was a good tool for awhile but became less effective as Police themselves became the "Front Door" and would encourage Drivers to "bring it on up good buddy!". Then of course the Radar Detector was introduced, dubbed "bird dog" by the law and "fuzzbusters" by the public. But something was wrong with that too, since at the time, the same company that made the Radar Units made the Radar Detectors. They would make a unit to detect speeders, then a unit to detect radar, then a radar unit the detectors wouldn't detect and then a detector that would detect the unit that the previous dectector wouldn't detect and then . . . . well you get the idea. They got rich off of it and still do.
Now, I have tried to come to terms with the prevention of getting tickets and have came up with a few suggestions. First, I got rid of my radar detector, why?, because most Police will give the ticket to the guy who has them way before the guy that doesn't. I have had Police tell me when I used detectors and still got tickets, that if I didn't have the detector they would not have stopped me.
Second, I try to follow some simple things to do and not to do while I'm riding, don't speed over hills, they like to sit right on the other side of the hill, don't speed around blind turns, (very hard not to do on a Bike), they also like to sit there. Do watch other Traffic, on the Interstate especially Truckers, if they are out in the passing lanes, most likely Cops aren't around. If they are all in a line in the right hand lane you can bet the Law is near. Do look for for tire tracks in the median grass. If they are there, the Law has been working that area. Watch traffic ahead and if you see brakes lights for no apparent reason, most likely it's because of a Cop. Of course like mentioned, beware of them hiding behind embankments, trees etc. Some people with cell phones and CB's will even report you to the Law for speeding thinking they are doing some good deed or something.
Another thing to watch for is if you do see one Officer, you can bet another is near. They do work in groups for added backup protection.
If you do speed, find some deserted roads without a lot of obstacles along the sides and where no houses are. There are tons of places like that in Florida, but there are still the "road kill varmits" to watch out for.
All in all, speeding is tough to do now-a-days and it is hard not to get caught. Using detectors and following some of the suggestions can help, but nothing is foolproof. You don't even have to be doing anything wrong for some Law Official to stop you and ticket you for something you didn't even do, after all, it's your word against his!
Oh yea, did I mention the "Bear in the air"?

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Marty