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Discussion Starter #1
ridin' about 60 mph (speed limit is 45-50 i i think) when i see an intersection ahead w/ the light turnin' yellow, i figure i've got enough time to stop so i start brakin' but realized seconds later that i may not make it. my friend who was right behind me had the right idea in this situation and just gunned it, makin' it through before the red light. i had aleady commited and figured i'd keep goin'... panick struck and i pulled the front brake a little too hard and started to feel weightless in the rear, let go of the brake in time to drop the rear, the shock slips my fingers from the clutch and the bike lurches forward, stalls and drops, sending me a few feet ahead of it.

my friend, who decided not to brake, swore she saw me nearin' an 11 o'clock position from her mirror, although i doubt i rlly went that high it went by rlly quickly for me. but i just wanted to share this experience from one newbie rider to other new riders. panicking sux, but because i was wearin' boots, jeans, leather jacket and a helmet i managed to get away w/ just a single rash on my knee the about 1.5 inches in diameter. my elbow too most of the force, but the jacket had a elbow padding that did its job well. my helmet kind of skipped on the pavement 2 or 3 times on the right side. the bike didn't throw me off that fast but i can only imagine how much more damage i'd receive if i just wore the standard squid-issued attire:D

the bike is fine, its still running good, except for the right mirror i destroyed, one more thing to add in my get-for-bike list. i've been goin' to a parkin' lot to practice taking turns but i guess i ought to spend some time on my braking as well:twofinger
 

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in situations like these when I've decided not to gunn it and brake hard instead, along with 2-fingers front braking, I usually keep a soft touch on the rear. not enough to lock it, but enough to ensure some weight on the rear even if it goes airborne. luckily, it never has. also pull in the clutch right before you stop, then you can worry about dropping gears after the bike has stopped.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
while i sit here working the grave shift tonight, i keep thinking about it over and over, i realized that may have lurched forward during braking and may have screwed myself into that unplanned stoppie.

also, would i have been able to stop faster if i had downshifted while braking instead of just pulling in the clutch?
 

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No. In a panic situation like that, try to train yourself to grab the clutch and the front brake. Keep the clutch in until you come to a stop, worring about letting it back out to shift, or using the rear brake, should come later in your biketime.

I hate to say it... but your helmet may be pooched. They're designed for only one impact (except according to one magazine lately) and it's probably not worth your brain to risk another one.

Glad to hear you're alright though.:thumb:
 

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Lost Nomad said:

also, would i have been able to stop faster if i had downshifted while braking instead of just pulling in the clutch?

regardless of what gear you're on... 6th or 3rd, during panic stop, just have the clutch engaged and then use the front brake, no need to downshift. if you have time, have a little pressure on the rear as well, gently and soft. right before you stop (i.e. 5-10 mph), pull in the clutch. best to practice it so you get used to knowing just when you should pull in the clutch.

reason for having it engaged because compression braking helps tremendously. you can compare between going 60 mph and pull in the clutch to brake as quickly as possible as oppose to leaving the clutch engaged (and pull in only when you're close to full stop). I also noticed that if you pull in the clutch early, you have to work harder at braking, putting more pressure at the lever.

just try not to lock your brake, especially the front. rear lock up can be managed as long as you're going straight and keep it locked until you stop. but once front brake locks and tire washes out, down you go.
 

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You should ALWAYS downshift as you're braking, emergency or not. In fact, it's even more important that you downshift in an emergency situation because any vehicle that is behind you will not be able to stop as quickly. Let's say in this situation that the car behind you saw you gun it and expect you to run it. In NJ, all drivers are assholes so he'd be tailgating you and run the red if necessary. If you suddenly start hitting the brakes and stop he won't be able to stop in the same distance that you did. A vehicle is about to plow into your stopped ass.. which gear would you rather be in? 6th, 3rd or 1st?
 

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it is all hypothetical situations... the amount of reaction time it takes to downshift during panic braking is longer than simply leaving the clutch engaged. while your example is good way to avoid rear-ending, but when you have short amount of time before t-boning a car, you'll need everything 1/10 of a second you can get. or instead of downshifting, you can purposely brake a little slower to let the cager behind you to realize. it doesn't matter what gear you're in an emergency situation, although already being in lower gears gives an advantage of stronger engine braking.

no doubt now you can see why the sport is dangerous, there's always a chance of going something wrong when there are cars around.

:2cents:
 

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Unas_the_Slayer said:
:laughing: :laughing:

Oh really?
really my son, really. ;)

unless you care to state your reasons coherently w/o resorting to hypothetical situations again. or are you going to tell me how much downshifting is actually faster than your front brake? :p
 

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Z_Fanatic said:
really my son, really. ;)

unless you care to state your reasons coherently w/o resorting to hypothetical situations again. or are you going to tell me how much downshifting is actually faster than your front brake? :p
I don't know about you, but my "hypothetical" bike pulls a lot harder the higher the rpm. That is always advantageous when in any type of emergency situation.

Oh.. and by the way dumbass, that was not a hypothetical situation. I nearly saw my friend get rear ended by a Dakota a few weeks ago because of exactly what I described. Although it wasn't because he pussied out of a yellow light.. a car stalled out in front of him.
 

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Unas_the_Slayer said:
I don't know about you, but my "hypothetical" bike pulls a lot harder the higher the rpm. That is always advantageous when in any type of emergency situation.

Oh.. and by the way dumbass, that was not a hypothetical situation. I nearly saw my friend get rear ended by a Dakota a few weeks ago because of exactly what I described. Although he didn't pussy out of a yellow light.. a car stalled out in front of him.
so now we're going from panic braking to accelerating out as fast as possible? right.... I smell non sequitur rubbish here.

let me spell it out for you, when you disengage the clutch as you downshift and let the clutch out, it takes time, even when you disengage the clutch and do multiple downshift, it takes time again... get it? there's no engine braking available until you let the clutch out, and it takes away more of your concentration which should be used only for braking. now exiting quickly to avoid a car or barney the purple dinosaur, is a different situation altogether. all emergency situations can't be summed by one word.


and your friend's situation, how is that related to this topic... I D I O T? anything irrelevant to the scenario started by author is hypothetical... do you even know what that word means or how to read in a given context?

please think before you type.
 

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Z_Fanatic said:
so now we're going from panic braking to accelerating out as fast as possible? right.... I smell non sequitur rubbish here.


and your friend's situation, how is that related to this topic... I D I O T? anything irrelevant to the scenario started by author is hypothetical... do you even know what that word means?

please think before you type.
No shit it doesn't relate to this exact situation. Read my first post again. I was just pointing out that you should try to downshift as you brake because you should always be ready to get out of a situation. It's the same idea with staying in first gear instead of shifting to neutral at a red light. I wasn't giving advice directly related to the situation, and I never said I was. I merely was giving general advice and then related it to the situation by "what if."

And downshifting requires no concentration. Maybe you can only either brake or downshift but it's really quite easy to do both at the same time..
 

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I've gotta say, I favour the "f*ck which gear I'm in" method.

Emergency braking should, IMO, involve a liberal dose of front brake and a meagre dose of rear. Rapidly changing down through gears will only bring another hazard into play; compression locking the rear.
 

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Unas_the_Slayer said:
I don't know about you, but my "hypothetical" bike pulls a lot harder the higher the rpm. That is always advantageous when in any type of emergency situation.

Oh.. and by the way dumbass, that was not a hypothetical situation. I nearly saw my friend get rear ended by a Dakota a few weeks ago because of exactly what I described. Although it wasn't because he pussied out of a yellow light.. a car stalled out in front of him.
(edited for repeating what someone else said!)

No need to get bitchy and start name calling. From what I've seen in other posts and even some of mine.. Z_Fan knows what he is talking about. And you... might know a thing or two... but no need to be a jackass.

I've never even heard of you, but if you are half the pro you make yourself sound out to be and don't want to contribute anything helpful, maybe you should stay out of the "new rider" forum. ;)

P.S. Can someone tell me what a cager is? I've seen the word used a lot throughout these forums but I'm unsure as to what it means.
 

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Radke2953 said:
...Can someone tell me what a cager is? I've seen the word used a lot throughout these forums but I'm unsure as to what it means.
"Cage" is bike-talk for car. As in, they're stuck in a cage, instead of riding free, like us. :thumb:
 

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Radke2953 said:
(edited for repeating what someone else said!)

No need to get bitchy and start name calling. From what I've seen in other posts and even some of mine.. Z_Fan knows what he is talking about. And you... might know a thing or two... but no need to be a jackass.

I've never even heard of you, but if you are half the pro you make yourself sound out to be and don't want to contribute anything helpful, maybe you should stay out of the "new rider" forum. ;)

P.S. Can someone tell me what a cager is? I've seen the word used a lot throughout these forums but I'm unsure as to what it means.
I'm no "pro" and never said I was. Try re reading my posts. I was just giving advice.. something pretty much everyone does on this site.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
thnx for the advice guys, i like the difference in opinions here. unas has a valid, though hypothetical point that even if i stopped i'd better start worryin' if there was someone also on my ass and about to rear end me.

key point in this scenario for me was that i panicked... had i been calm about the situation i could have tried downshifting or put some pressure on my rear brakes (as i forgot to do so), thank god i had enough sense to let go of my front brakes though when my rear tire came up

although i must admit, for a split second while i was up on one i felt a great and fun sense of rush :D
 

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I'm late but I'll chime in...

I always pull the clutch in the same time as I hit the brake. I'm not concerned in the least about what gear the bike is in, as I want all my available attention to go towards keeping the proper ammount of pressure on the front brake. Engine braking, does the same thing as the rear brake (Slows down the rear wheel) and as you put weight on the front (via front brake) its pretty much useless. So I go ahead and lock up the rear brake at the same time. One motion clutch, rear brake to the stop, and preload the front enough to compress the suspention (about a quater of a second) after that apply enough front brake to barely lift the rear tire. No more then an inch. Anymore and you are actually loosing braking power...

As for getting rear ended. Sure thats a concern, but, between getting rear ended and hitting something head on, I would rather get rear ended. The other car should be slowing down, and will hit me at a relativly low speed. My rear tyre and tail should act as a crumple zone. The subframe should twist, and launch me superman style, if the impact is severe enough. Still while the bike is done for, my chances of living are pretty good. Now, hitting something solid head on, thats hard to live thru...
 
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