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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Vash said:
ahh the good ol globalization debate. The idea is to find a way to adapt to change, not prevent change from happening. No one seemed to have figured out a way to adapt to it, but few are thinking in that direction.
And just how DO you adapt to competing with wages a FRACTION of what it takes to live here WITHOUT becoming what's there? That's the fallicy in the whole discussion. Tell me again WHAT in the world is a worker here to do to out innovate and out perform slave to twenty cent an hour labor OR, the one still working its way up the chain, $7 to $10 dollar an hour degreed engineers? And the next SOB who suggests to you that you SHOULD compete with that, slap his silly ass silly!:)

No problem with change and no problem figuring out how to do it. Trade is NOT new, change is NOT new, and greed is NOT new. What IS new is the amount of power that has been yielded to the greedy in the historically bankrupt policies of trickle down that have been largely absent since FDR but re-surfaced since Reagan. A few paragraphs in the trade policies is all it will take for the MAJORITY to be protected from abuse. And the minority will still make PLENTY... if they're REALLY worth their salt. Might be some new names in that list but there'll still be plenty of BIG winners.

The problem is when the greedy are totally willing to USE it to their TREMENDOUS benefit and at the EXPENSE of over half of our citizens, getting away with human abuses that are NOT tolerated here, and have duped the public with non-issue after non-issue to convince a sufficient number of those citizens to blow holes in their own feet, through their own ignorance, supporting their own demise, couching the right to take advantage of people in a bogus cry of freedom.

My guess is between 30 and 40% of the supporters of those low-life perpe-traitors are on the short end of the ultimate stick and don't even know it. 50% of the citizens DO know it and never supported the twits. Probably all socialists or commies.;)

BTW, income statistics from the seventies until now confirm the trend. It's a steady downhill hit for the middle and lower classes. It hasn't yet reached all who WILL be affected. NOW would be a good time to start fixing it. I'm yet to see a THING in history or present policy to convince me ANY different. I'm open to that evidence but doubt it exists. I've been looking, watching, reading, and listening a looong time and everything I've learned is quite to the contrary. That's how I've come to the conclusions I have.:thumb:
 

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Out for the weekend, but I promise I'll get back to ya on monday..
 

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Congratulation Dad, you get your reply early.

One of the reasons I call you a socialist, is because you see greed where I see profit. Profit is good. It makes us a productive society and drives our economy up.
I think you will agree that out economy is based on competition, and its that competition that makes outsourcing so inevitable. Once one company saves some money on it, they drop the price and all their competition has to follow. Or so goes the race to the bottom theory.
Except of course its not entirely accurate. I compete with engineers in India and Mexico all the time. You know what the secret is? Increased productivity. State side we have a giant infastracture to rely on, and when properly used I can get much more out of a $7/hr manual worker.
Outsourcing is a new phenomena, because today we have the technology to make it possible. 10 years ago it would have been stupid to have a research dept located in several countries. Today it happens all the time. Same goes for telemarketing, or whomever is going to start taking order at mcd's

But we are both familuar with the issue. Lets look at how to solve it, because while I think that some outsourcing is inevitable, I would like to see US maintain its industrial strength.
You proposed trade agreements. That essentially means one thing, limit forign goods off our market. Consumers cant by outsourced goods, or at least have to pay so much for them that its not worthwhile. Assuming one can write a fool proof agreement on this (which I doubt, but we'll assume someone did), That would work great in the short term. For 10-20 years middle class will be protected. But you are talking about a policy of isoletionism, and the long term conciquences will be obvious. Foreign companies, will improve, untill they will be competetive with the US industry despite the high teriffs. The US industry, which will spend too long protected, will grow fat and lazy, and when push comes to shove, lots of people will loose their jobs.
Sort of like whats happening with cars now.


You cant simply go around and legislate problems out of existance. Our workers get paid more, so we gotta find a way for them to be more productive than the guys in india.
 
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