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That was right on

Thanks 4 posting it up Chuck-I hadn't seen it yet. It gives a decent summary. I'm still leaning towards Bush tho :2cents:

The mention of botox was great :p
 

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Re: That was right on

GlenF4i said:
Thanks 4 posting it up Chuck-I hadn't seen it yet. It gives a decent summary. I'm still leaning towards Bush tho :2cents:

The mention of botox was great :p
You're just at the right age for volunteer service in Iraq, I wouldn'r be so hasty to back Bush if I were you :rolleyes:
 

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That deserves a reply

Odd that you mention that because I'm in the process of applying to Officer School for the Army. I plan on going in (if accepted) as soon as I finish my degree, and that is only because they require a 4 year degree to get into Army OCS.

So I may end up there or some other spot Bush turns hot :cool:
I ain't scurred;)
 

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Re: Re: That was right on

LuckyStrike said:
You're just at the right age for volunteer service in Iraq, I wouldn'r be so hasty to back Bush if I were you :rolleyes:
Pretty ironic that the draft bill going through the house right now was written by democrats!

I'm backing Bush!

Kevin
10 year USN veteran
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Defending our nation should be the job of everyone, as in every race, background, social class don't ya think? We can’t continue to call on the same people (usually the poor to lower middle class) to make all of the sacrifices while other folks continue on with their lives as if nobody is dying out there. On the other hand, I don't think a mandatory draft is needed right now. Either way it's beside the point. Personally I think this Bush guy needs to go. Fuck the war...why is OUR economy STILL in the toilet. Watched a documentary of Kerry's life the other day...it was impressive. I'd be more comfortable with him in charge. :2cents:
 

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Bluto said:
Defending our nation should be the job of everyone, as in every race, background, social class don't ya think? We can’t continue to call on the same people :
I 100% agree, but we're not in Iraq defending our nation. Iraq posed no threat to us whatsoever, and neither did Saddam Hussein. We're in Iraq because Bush lied.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
LuckyStrike said:
I 100% agree, but we're not in Iraq defending our nation. Iraq posed no threat to us whatsoever, and neither did Saddam Hussein. W're in Iraq beacuse Bush lied.
That's why I said it's not needed right now. What is needed is to figure out how to get out of there. I just wonder if we would be there at all if all the top brass had their kids over there too.
 

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LuckyStrike said:
I 100% agree, but we're not in Iraq defending our nation. Iraq posed no threat to us whatsoever, and neither did Saddam Hussein. W're in Iraq beacuse Bush lied.
I've been in numerous debates over this, and am not interested in having another one. I will say though that the above is merely opinion, based in no way on fact.

It could be argued either way about Iraq's ability to threaten us, so I won't even bother talking about it.

As far as the lying part, that is purely opinion. Let's at least be honest about the situation, if Bush lied, so did most of Congress and many of Bush's opponents, including Kerry. Knowing how easy it would be to misinterpret information, and how easy it is for a story to change from person to person, I think it is easier to say that the government as a whole either lied, misled, or more likely misinterpreted their information.

Right now I'm neither pro-Bush nor pro-Kerry, but it does irritate me to see Kerry supporters trying to distance him from Bush when he in fact said many of the same things Bush did prior to finding out the war was unpopular. Once he realized it wasn't popular, he quickly backpeddaled.

Right or wrong, at least Bush sticks to his views. Just my opinion.
 

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spicersh said:
I've been in numerous debates over this, and am not interested in having another one.
If that were the case you would have stopped right there?:confused:

instead you poke someone with a stick and run away?
 

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LuckyStrike said:
If that were the case you would have stopped right there?:confused:

instead you poke someone with a stick and run away?
I wasn't trying to start a debate, nor am I running from one. I was bringing to light that your statement was an opinion, not a fact, and that there are other opinions out there. Some of them are even based on facts.

I choose to get into debates on this site less and less as I've found many on here tend to pick a side and defend it to the death, facts be damned. Little to no learning takes place in such debates, and often times they end up in a petty namecalling match.

Color me disinterested. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
spicersh said:
it does irritate me to see Kerry supporters trying to distance him from Bush when he in fact said many of the same things Bush did prior to finding out the war was unpopular. Once he realized it wasn't popular, he quickly backpeddaled.
I don't think it's an issue of popularity...more of an issue on how bush has handled the situation at hand. No one's gonna stand around and say they bombed us no problem lets just ignore it. ha. It's not backpeddling to agree with something needing to be done but disagree with the way it was handled. I think the whole flipflop/backpeddling for his whole career thing is blown way out of proportune. For some things, what is true today may not be true tomorrow. I think the only thing Kerry is guilty of is understanding that fact better than most.
 

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I agree it is overblown, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist to some extent. I also think people saying Bush is an idiot because of his public speaking ability is overblown. Many things attributed to him he never said. I've not seen all of his speeches, but every one I have seen he didn't come off as a word-fumbling fool. That's what politics is about. Find any flaw in your opponent and make it as big as you possibly can.

Some things that are said go beyond overblown into the realm of out and out lies. I posted an example on another board so why not try it here. I have heard since Bush got elected how horrible the economy is and how he's just making it worse and worse. I admittedly don't follow this issue often and have not done a great deal of research on it, but an article I happened across this morning caught my eye and made me wonder:

A Record of Recovery
By GEORGE P. SCHULTZ
Published: August 4, 2004

Over the course of last week, we heard a lot from the Democrats about their record of economic achievement. So let's take the advice of a Democrat of yesteryear, Al Smith, the former governor of New York. His trademark phrase was, "Let's look at the record."

These charts show the rate of change in real gross domestic product and in employment from 1990 to last June. The shaded areas show recessions. The vertical lines show when President Bill Clinton took office and when he left. Because the economy has momentum, it's useful to look carefully at the trends in evidence at the time of presidential transitions. When you look at the record, a quick summary is this: President Clinton inherited prosperity; President Clinton bequeathed recession.

The 2001 recession was short and shallow, with employment - always a lagging indicator - the last part of the economy to rebound. The employment picture has been a little puzzling since the two main surveys - one asks existing establishments how many people are on their payrolls, and the other asks people in a large sample of households whether they have jobs - show slightly different patterns. In any case, by now a third piece of the record appears clear: the recession President Clinton left behind has turned into prosperity under George W. Bush.

Thanks, Al Smith, for your good advice.

George P. Shultz, secretary of the Treasury from 1972 to 1974 and secretary of state from 1982 to 1989, is a distinguished fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University.
The article also had a chart, attached below.

To be honest I don't think anything will change in Iraq (or any other issue really) regardless of who wins in November. Kerry has to take some sort of different stance on issues to distance himself from Bush, but if he wins I don't see much changing really. Campaign claims are just that, and rarely seem to come to fruition once in office.
 

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spicersh said:
I wasn't trying to start a debate, nor am I running from one. I was bringing to light that your statement was an opinion, not a fact, and that there are other opinions out there. Some of them are even based on facts.

I choose to get into debates on this site less and less as I've found many on here tend to pick a side and defend it to the death, facts be damned. Little to no learning takes place in such debates, and often times they end up in a petty namecalling match.

Color me disinterested. :)
So then you have facts that says he's not a liar? Facts to back up how we're "defending" our country by invading Iraq? Where are your facts, or are you the one you were referring to with the "facts be damned" statement?
 

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It all remains the same...

Nothing is really going to change in this country as long as we are hampered by the two party system. There is no significant difference between Bush and Kerry. I don't like Bush, but Kerry doesn't impress me either. Except, unlike Bush, he actually served his military service. We need to promote "third" parties, support them with our votes until we get a better representation of the different views and values that make up the fabric of America. Face it, we all have different opinions, values, and points of view. And they are not being represented by the Ruling Class.

My biggest beef with "citizens" who identify as republicans is their love it or leave it attitude. This usually from some pissant who never served his country, and has no idea what war is like. My initial reaction to that shit is: put your ass where your mouth is, and fawking enlist. You support the war? Go fight it. Been there. Done that. Don't like it.

You know what? I do love my country. That's why I would like to see it live up to it's potential, and be the true leader in the world. A leader in freedom, integrity and honor. Those words don't mean much to our polital "leaders". We could lead by example, instead of forcing others into "compliance".

Bush won't get my vote. And neither will Kerry. Sorry for all you people just aching for a change. You want real change? Vote Libertarian, or whatever independant shares your ideology. Bush or Kerry makes no difference. They feed off the same trough, just from opposite sides.

-J
 

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LuckyStrike said:
So then you have facts that says he's not a liar? Facts to back up how we're "defending" our country by invading Iraq? Where are your facts, or are you the one you were referring to with the "facts be damned" statement?
:laughing:

Dude, you need to chill the fuck out. I wasn't personally attacking you, I was simply saying there are differing opinions. Seeing as how I am not a part of any of our national security agencies, I would think it fairly obvious that I don't have the facts to back up what I think. Nor have I even stated what I personally think. Should I send the question back your way?

The attitude in your post is a perfect example of why it is no longer beneficial to debate anything on this site.
 

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I think that the intent of IRAQ is good. I am glad we went on the offense rather than sit defensively and wait.
Just what is happening to our soldiers is not good.
Bush has other issues and agendas that do not make him my choice for prez. I am not so usre Kerry will be any better just different.
 
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