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Should we have stiffer licensing procedures ?

  • Yes. Take a course,then there should be a tiered licensing system.

    Votes: 78 27.5%
  • No. It is my right to buy any bike I choose.

    Votes: 79 27.8%
  • Yes. They should make the licence include an MSF course.

    Votes: 127 44.7%

  • Total voters
    284
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Tristan said:

I'm no expert on the Hurt report, but I do recall that alcohol and unliscenced riders are very well represented in motorcycling deaths. These people will be totally unaffected by any more regulation.
I am familiar with the Hurt study. I am also familiar with most of the national statistics involving motorcycle deaths. (I wrote a thesis on helmet laws for a law class.)
Yes, alcohol and unlicensed riders attribute to many motorcyclist deaths, but often times it is the other motorist (autos) that cause the accident, be it from alcohol, inattention, or just plain stupidness when dealing with motorcyclists. Safety courses are designed to teach motorcyclists not only to ride with safety on their part, but to also compensate for the problems associated with other motorists.

Maybe safety courses shouldn't be mandatory for riders. Maybe it is too expensive (it only cost me $50) or it takes too long to get into a class. And maybe you will never be involved in a life threatening accident. But when it comes down to it, what is the cost if you are? You may have learned something in that class that could have prevented it.

(If you are wondering, my thesis concluded that helmets should be optional even though I wear one by choice.) But if they are going to regulate something, I'd rather they make motorcycle safety mandatory for EVERYONE. That includes better safety training to deal with motorcyclists for motorists too.
 

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Wasn't the Hurt report from over 30 yrs ago?

FYI, my mandated driving test under Tenn state law consisted of performing a figure 8 around a light pole in the parking lot next to the THP liscensing center. The officer walked back into the building as soon as I started on the bike. She didn't even watch me. That is crap. The officers will even tell you that the test is a joke.

Who you callin Safety Nazi? :D Oh sorry, they call me that at work sometimes. I guess it goes with the title. ;)
 

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Personal freedom Vs Public safety

Here in New Zealand, we have a Three stage system for getting your bike ticket.

Learners - 6mths, 250cc or smaller, max 70kmh, L plate.

Restricted - 12mths, 250cc or smaller, time can be reduced to 6mths with advanced course.

Full.


I went through this system and don't feel suppressed by the state.

One of the negative things that this systems tends to overcome, is the pressure new riders put themselves under to keep up with the big boys, and for them to buy the toys before they are able to handle them.

I don't think any system will keep everybody happy, I would rather err on the side of caution, and mabey save a few lives, at the risk of pissing a few others off.

Before I got into Bikes, I had some misconceptions about them, like the power output, handling, counter steering etc etc etc.

Looking back, I am glad I did go through it, I think it made a better rider out of me, I was allowed to be a "learner" and not expected to be anything else. I didn't spend my time blasting past other bikes scraping pegs, cause I couldn't, I spent my time learning to master the puss bucket, and dreaming of my real bike.



0.02
Ross
CBRxx
 

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How much you wanna bet.............

that if some form of mandatory class was imposed on us, that the price of the darn thing would go up?! You would think that in the interest of "safety" the price would drop, be it a govt. run thing, or private runned thing. Just look at what happened with auto insurance when it became law to have it. Everyone was sure that the price would drop, since a lot more people would be buying it, so the companies would be able to lower the rates, right? Bull Hockey, I say! The State and Federal govt bitc...er...I mean, bodies, are constantly looking for new programs to fund, and new ways of getting our hard earned dollar. F-'em.
Ok, I'm done venting.......I just wrote out about $2k in bills, half of it being a check to the blood sucking IRS. Bastards.
 

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Gov. control

Ok, I'm all for keeping the government out of my life as much as possible. However there is one thing that we who are free thinkers are forgetting. With the freedom to do what you want to do comes responsibility and quite frankly there are too few people willing to step up to the responsibility part of freedom. I see nothing wrong with adding certain common sense stipulations that are to be met before we indulge in a freedom, whether that be a tiered licensing system for ALL motor vehicle operators, helmet usage, or gun ownership/usage. The thing is, who gets to decide who is acting responsibly and who isn't? The answer to that is simple, our legislatures pass laws to address those who are irresponsible. Never forget ---- My freedom to swing my fist ends where your nose begins.
 

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Make it EASY! More motorcyclists on the road means more acceptance for motorcyclists. Once you open the regulation can of worms, you get the idea in people's heads that motorcycles need extra special regulation, and before you know it, you are having horsepower limits and all kinds of extra garbage, like the British system. Now you're not allowed to buy that new Hayabusa, ZX-12, or GSXR-1000. I'm telling you, once you get them started... you'll be sorry.

That being said, if we have a bunch of newbies out there on R1's getting killed, the rest of us are going to get slapped hard with restrictions in response to that. Make a regulation but make it lenient. Something like, in your first 8 months you can have any bike so long as it is not over 750cc AND over 100hp. If it is over one but not the other, leave 'em alone. A single cc limit is arbitrary legal crap: some guy isn't allowed to get a Harley Sportster (883) but it's fine if he gets a GSXR-750. Uh huh.

What need for a MSF test? Just make the DMV written test and riding test include more knowledge and skills. Problem solved.
 

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poll

This one may suprise many of you.......
I voted for ths MSF course as part of the liscensing procedure but......{theres always the but} when you sell them and you want to feel out a potential customer,and the story begins"I used to ride dirt bikes"
I start thinking victim number 47.....I mean I got a resemblece of a concience. Of all these stories I am not about to tell....when you sell one on a Saturday and the guys come back in next week telling you your last customer is dead it makes you wonder,it has gotten so bad, try to get full coverage from your friendly Allstate rep. You can buy Liability but not collision, on any sport bike. It is frustrating,if it starts out with CBR,GSX-RorF,FZR,YZF or ZX on full coverage. It should almost be tiered,if not natural selection will take its course.....
 

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It depends on if your asking if it is to easy to get a license or purchase the bike. To the first my answer is yes I was able to obtain my motorcycle endorsement at the age of 15. I could not legally ride yet but I did have the endorsement ready to go for the day i turned 16. To the second no it isn't. I recently purchashed my newest bike a CB1000. It was the most difficult thing I believe I have ever gone through. I was able to purchase a new car and a house but I could not get a $5,000 loan to get my dream, but through hard work and my wife's patience I finally prevailed!!!!!
 

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FZR400Tony said:
i wanna see tiered licensing so i can buy a new cbr400rr!!!

Damn straight, maybe we could get some of the cool little bikes here in the states if there was a tiered system????????????
 

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Motorcycle Safety Exams wrong

Never took MSF course but I did notice that the FL. Moto Exam was straight defensive driving elements, that were either not applicable or downright WRONG in regard to staying alive on a motorcycle. Things like riding down the middle of the road holding your lane position at all costs, etc. Until we want mandatory training for all drivers like suggested I would not advocate for it for us. I do like time on the bike and beginning cc licenses OK and open it up after a year or two, maybe. But courses are just about making money, really. I do like FZR Tony's response that we would now have these high tech small cc bikes available to us. I don't think where we have no restictions other than a short waiting period to buy legal FIREARMS in this country why we should we have to spend time and $$ teaching moto skills. I wonder how many advocates of this tiered system are MSF teachers hoping to increase their own revenue! Also latest studies show cell phone usage in cars decreases driver's ability to drive safely, that would probably save a lot of our butts to make driving and yakking illegal, but I know that won't pass with the telecommunication's lobbies. Be careful of more legislation, it always lead to abuse of other constitutional protections. For example, how long before cops stop any rider to determine if he has the right license for the bike he rides, from that now legal inquiry all sorts of abuse starts.
 

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I believe there should be 2 tiers of licensing. Having dirt bike experience has almost nothing to do with a road license other than you can 'operate' a motorcycle. The traction demands, braking differences, OTHER VEHICLES all differ. I also believe that taking driver or rider license tests at DMV in a clased area is crap. At least MSF courses make you complete a full class before you take that test.

I believe in the right to buy/own whatever you want as long as you can demonstrate that you are somewhat proficent at using it. How many 19 year olds can REALLY ride a liter-bike. I am not talking about those rare instances of a Hayden or Bostrom, but then again they ride RACEbikes, not streetbikes.

I don't exactly know how the tier would be set but having a MSF course be MANDATORY would tie up the system for those who want to LEARN to ride instead of those who are just taking a class to GET a license. Those who want to LEARN will take the class. The ones who already know everything, know it all becausethey have already experienced crashes in their first month of riding!
 

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oldgixer said:
Even the MSF won't stop the problems associated with the new super bikes. There should be a max. horsepower/ size that a new riders should be allowed to ride. Will this stop the idiots, of course not.... you can't legislate intelligence, but it'll be a start.
That doesn't sound fair to a 300 pound man who's too big to fit on a (supposed) 500cc bike. He probably needs at least a 750 on upwards to 1000cc.

-=bmacd=-
 

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I think Every cager should have to ride a bike for at least one year, before getting a license. I also think a tiered system should used.
 

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bmacd said:
That doesn't sound fair to a 300 pound man who's too big to fit on a (supposed) 500cc bike. He probably needs at least a 750 on upwards to 1000cc.

-=bmacd=-
If you are talking the physical size of the bike, then the engine displacement means nothing. My wife's 600 fit me WAY better then my 1100 ever did, and I'm 6'2" and weigh about two-oh-fat.

I'm starting to agree with the tiered system more and more. If someone is really getting into riding because they love it then they won't mind. I think the tier system should only be for the road though. If someone wants to buy their liter bike for stunt shows or track use then fine, but for any bike that will be registered and driven on the public roads there should be some kind of regulation, IMHO.
 

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I voted for a tiered system, but think it's pretty heavy handed. But I see no choice but to restrict the actions of the incompetent in advance, rather than them (POSSIBLY) being charge and sued after I'm already dead.
 

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Alberta is changing to a tiered drivers licence system for all new drivers ( cars incld.) with a Zero tolerance for alcohol or speed violations. Although I kinda feel for the new drivers, I drive for a living and will feel slightly safer.
 

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Re: Motorcycle Safety Exams wrong

DIRTYCURTYD said:
Never took MSF course but I did notice that the FL. Moto Exam was straight defensive driving elements, that were either not applicable or downright WRONG in regard to staying alive on a motorcycle. Things like riding down the middle of the road holding your lane position at all costs, etc. Until we want mandatory training for all drivers like suggested I would not advocate for it for us. I do like time on the bike and beginning cc licenses OK and open it up after a year or two, maybe. But courses are just about making money, really. I do like FZR Tony's response that we would now have these high tech small cc bikes available to us. I don't think where we have no restictions other than a short waiting period to buy legal FIREARMS in this country why we should we have to spend time and $$ teaching moto skills. I wonder how many advocates of this tiered system are MSF teachers hoping to increase their own revenue! Also latest studies show cell phone usage in cars decreases driver's ability to drive safely, that would probably save a lot of our butts to make driving and yakking illegal, but I know that won't pass with the telecommunication's lobbies. Be careful of more legislation, it always lead to abuse of other constitutional protections. For example, how long before cops stop any rider to determine if he has the right license for the bike he rides, from that now legal inquiry all sorts of abuse starts.
I'm sorry but I got to correct you...first the MSF is a non-profit organization. The bikes they use during training are donated by local dealerships or previous students. Second, the instructors are ALL volunteers. The small fee they charge is to pay for bike maintenance and fix-ups when someone drops a bike. I am NOT an instructor, simply a very grateful student. I'm also re-taking the MSF course this year as a re-fresher.
 

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That last statement isn't completely true as a MSF instructor 6 years ago I was paid ~8 bucks an hour. Not too much but not volunteer either. It can also be run as a for profit business as is done here in the San Bernardino area. They certainly aren't getting rich off it but it is a business AS IT SHOULD BE. That way if they suck their competitors can run them out of business instead of being like a government job where it's impossible to get rid of the incompetent. This is all different state to state too. In Illinois where I trained to ride and as an instructor the license money paid for the course so basically it was free to state residents. Here in CA that is obviously different as my wife is taking the class this weekend and it's 200 bucks here (go figure as CA is the 7th largest economy in the world, runs a deficit and is almost broke @ 8% state income tax but can't pay for MC training?????).

:2cents: , later
 

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I stand corrected. I didn't realize the MSF was different in other states. They only charge $25 per course here in MI. I did talk with the instructors when I last took the class 2+ years ago. They were not paid or made a profit. I'm very surprised they charge so much in other states.
 
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