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Discussion Starter #1
From what I've seen so far the case against Saddam is pretty lame. They have no hard evidence linking him to anything. So they should set him free.

All they have to do is take off the handcuffs, tell him we're sorry for bumping off his two boys, and give him $20 cab fare. Of course the exact date, time, and location of his release should be made known to the Iraqi people. That way anyone having issues with Saddam would know where he is and would be free to settle those issues at that time.
 

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Hi All-

I'm waiting for Saddam Hussein to subpoena America-hating nitwits like Senator Ted Orca Kennedy, Senator John Kerry, Senator Little Dick Durbin, Senator Chuck Schumer, and other lefty knuckleheads to repeat in court what they've been saying here. You would think that Saddam Hussein was Humanitarian of the Year by listening to them.

~ Blue Jays ~
 

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You know there comes a point where the judicial system is utterly useless. The cost to try a dictator is enormous, the factual proof is rare (hey he RAN the country), and worse yet, the outcome is known long before the trial started. Its saddam FFS. How many thouthands of people did he kill? why are we wasting everyones time with that?
Isnt understood by most all of the human race, that its one of the risks you take when you become a dictator? It pays very well, but the retirement plan sucks
 

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Blue Jays said:
Hi All-

I'm waiting for Saddam Hussein to subpoena America-hating nitwits like Senator Ted Orca Kennedy, Senator John Kerry, Senator Little Dick Durbin, Senator Chuck Schumer, and other lefty knuckleheads to repeat in court what they've been saying here. You would think that Saddam Hussein was Humanitarian of the Year by listening to them.

~ Blue Jays ~
I'm sorry but I listen to any and all senators, congressmen, or politically involved or issue involved people, and I can't say I ever got anything close to that impression from ANY of those on that list, or for that matter, just about any person ANYWHERE. The concurrence has been that dude was bad news.

What to do about it and what policy should be adopted that wasn't just an emotional reaction from a gut sense of disgust and frustration with him, a policy that had a real world chance of accomplishing the desired end, is where I've seen the discussions and I tended to agree with many of their positions more than I did others. I also feel that the unfolding of the whole situation, the hindsight, is actually proving out a lot of what I felt and much of what they voiced, too. I think John Murtha put it succcinctly when he said, "The solution to this problem will be a political one and not a military one. It's unwinable militarily."

Oh, and for anybody who repeats the mantra that Murtha suggested a clean cut and run, don't look back - that's patently 100% false. Yet it was the way it was reported and repeated time and again on the news, especially on some news.;) Listen to him and better yet, listen to the whole hearing on the floor of Congress, and you'll see what was said. It got pretty wild and I'm glad it did. This IS an issue worth getting excited about and voicing your opinion strongly.

I have seen very legitimate discussions and have also seen very political discussions with TREMENDOUS leaps to conclusions that just aren't supported by any facts the pundits presented or facts I've been able to find elsewhere. The legitimate discussions are very informative regardless of which side those involved might come down on. Some of the best I've seen have been on Public Television news and especially Charlie Rose interviews. That guy is good!

Sorry, Bluejay, no Joan Baez singing on this one.;)
 

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Thats exactly the problem. Everyone is all up an at em about what murta may or may not have said and who may or may not have called him a coward. You know what? I dont give a damn. Why dont they worry more about winning iraq, establishing a good base of ops there, and squizing the hell out of iran untill it abandons all the bullshit about nukes and paying people to blow us up everywhere. While they are at it, cheaper gas wont hurt.
The more time goes on, the more I think that democracy has reached it limits of usefullness, just like many other gov't systems have before it. It was a great concept to govern 20 million, but with 200 million it turns into constant bickering and nothing ever gets done.
Damn it the solution is in mathematics. Surely there must be a way to describe a gov't in terms of its effects on GNP.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Vash said:
You know there comes a point where the judicial system is utterly useless. The cost to try a dictator is enormous, the factual proof is rare (hey he RAN the country), and worse yet, the outcome is known long before the trial started. Its saddam FFS. How many thouthands of people did he kill? why are we wasting everyones time with that?
Isnt understood by most all of the human race, that its one of the risks you take when you become a dictator? It pays very well, but the retirement plan sucks
That is the problem they had with Hitler, should he have survived. There was almost nothing with his signature on it. Most operational documents and orders were signed by people 2 - 3 ranks below Hitler.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Blue Jays said:
Hi All-

I'm waiting for Saddam Hussein to subpoena America-hating nitwits like Senator Ted Orca Kennedy, Senator John Kerry, Senator Little Dick Durbin, Senator Chuck Schumer, and other lefty knuckleheads to repeat in court what they've been saying here. You would think that Saddam Hussein was Humanitarian of the Year by listening to them.

~ Blue Jays ~
And to Nevada's eternal shame, Harry Reid. With the majority of Nevada's population being Calif. transplants, Reid can go to the far left and get away with it. I'm sorry I voted for him one time back in the 80s.
 

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Hi Dad-

And here I was drinking soothing herbal tea and gargling with lemon juice and honey to prepare for our singing duet! :cool:

~ Blue Jays ~
 

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You are right DL. They are simply going to waste millions of dollars on said court case. What you suggested is so simple for then if anyone wants they can nail him & probably will.

Like yesterday some drunk is honking down the wrong lane of one of the few 4-lane roads at a high speed on a black sport car, only a few miles north of her, & piles into a 1/2 ton truck. No on killed or badly injured though both vehicles ---- well you could not tell what make or model they were.

That same day, the drunk being allowed to go home, there is a call for the RCMP as said drunk was badly beaten up in his home & knifed, but not to death.

Good chance it was the owner of the sporty black car the drunk had stolen & good chance the owner pf the sporty black car, being from Alberta, was still around with hope his car would be found. So an example of what many would like to do only it was done. So far the RCMP have not said so, but the media think this could be true. Hope he is not nailed if he was the one to beat up the theift & also put a knife into him.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Smitty: I'll sedway into my pet peeve using your comments about the drunk driver.

Since 2001 more than 65,000 Americans are dead and 1 million injured due to drunk drivers. No one, and I mean no one ever gets upset about this or wants to do anything about it. We can't eliminate drunk drivers, that is impossible. But many countries, like Finland, have passed draconian laws that reduced drunk driving by 80% or more, like mandatory prison terms, years in some cases, for first time offenders. But to the average person drunk driving is something that happens to others and I know some people who brag about their drinking and driving. I just don't get it. Dead is dead.
 

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I've reconsidered things, once I found out the trial is televised and is shown live across iraq. Apparently its the hottest thing on TV. Well thats a good thing. After all it serves to remind people how life was before their so called occupation.
 

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Blue Jays said:
Hi Dad-

And here I was drinking soothing herbal tea and gargling with lemon juice and honey to prepare for our singing duet! :cool:

~ Blue Jays ~
WOW:eek: I guess a shower and shave would be the least I could do.:) I'll try to remember this next time we have a meeting of the minds. :thumb: Maybe a Vick's cough drop and splash of High Karate, too.:cool: :D
 

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Okay this idea of going in the clanger seemed like a good idea in Winnipeg, Manitoba Cdn. Only it seems with a lawyer many were out on bail within an hour. Now in the case of some, pretty high up in the business world, said business would say he was on a short holiday at the the so called drinking time. Unfortunately this idea was not doing what it should.

Like in the case of where someone is cought for also using a f/arm in an incident, like a robbery. The maditory sentence for any breaking of the f/arms code is four yrs, BUT that is plea-bargined & so only a few months for the other matters.

Exampe would be of a case in one city of where the criminal was let out early onf parole, & police watched & sure enough said criminal was again selling drugs. They nail him at his room which also includes two side by side shotguns sawed off to the forestalk & right benind the grip area of the rear stock.

In court the judge said something like "Now I do not think you intended to use those for duck shooting do you & they are not even suitable for that are they?" The criminal agrees so the judge then says "Then we will take care of the shotguns" meaning they will be destoyed. The criminal still on parole does not get four yrs plus another few yrs but all of six months. Reason being they do not want to many criminals in jail as they lack jail space!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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This makes me wonder smitty... Overcrowded jails are a problem facing every developed country. So there is crime a plenty, considering most crimes dont ever get solved. Hell, I think every person here broke at least one law (not talking violent crimes)
So what does that tell us? Maybe that its a natural tendancy of humans to break laws? Part of our natural tendancy to rebel, even if it doesnt do us any good?
Assuming that is true, perhaps we are wrong somewhere. I mean, if people have a natural tendancy to commit crimes, then no ammount of punishment is going to change that. We could isolate criminals from society, but new ones will replace them (and what do we do with the ones we isolate? Start another penal colony? populate mars?)
If the problem is really part of human wiring, then the solution should involve all, and not just the ones whose wiring acting in the way it was supposed to.

Dont really know where I'm going with this... Just thinking out loud.
 

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Statistically, when people don't feel thay have a stake in something, a personal gainful involvement, the statistics show they treat it accordingly. I've observed this, too. Crime is one thing but its effects on human behavior show on many levels.

If that's true, I wonder how we might use that knowledge in all aspects of our daily lives? Making decisions at work, in relationships, in governing, driving, how we treat strangers on the street, employess, enemies, etc.:dunno: Some more thinking out loud.:)
 

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It reminds me of early computer development. Hold on, stay with me. In the early days they used relays for everything (yeah, pre vacuum tubes, like WW2 style shit) Anyways they had serious noise problems, false signals things along those lines. They tripple shielded everything, but it came coming back. It didnt help that the system was the size of a building. So each time there was an error, the programmer went chasing around trying to find the one tech who touched something with a screw driver.
Enter some famour mathematician (cant remember who) who analyzes the noise. He takes an arbitrary period of time, and discovers that a third of it is noise. so he takes that third, and examines it, and discovers that only a third of that is actually noise, and that goes in to infinity. Conclusion? Noise wasnt caused by some tech with a screw driver, it is a fundemental part of the system. Solution? develop noise filters, use redundancy, and all sorts of other things. anyways enough about computers, does anyone see where I'm going with this?
If humans have a natural tendancy to "misbehave", then we are running around trying to chase down the tech with a screw driver. A system must be devised in which society can still function, normally, with crime present. Before you say thats impossible, realize that is exactly what insurance is doing, but not enough.
I have a hidden suspecion, that someone needs to apply mathematics do gov't. I'm told by some that there is even a science like that somewhere... can someone point me in the right direction? this has become an obsession over the past couple of months
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Vash said:
...If humans have a natural tendancy to "misbehave", then we are running around trying to chase down the tech with a screw driver. A system must be devised in which society can still function, normally, with crime present. Before you say thats impossible, realize that is exactly what insurance is doing, but not enough.
But, humans have free will and can choose to apply their own filters. One of my filters is called fear of punishment. Another is a sense of right and wrong. Mechanical systems can be random but don't have free will.

Applying math to government won't work. Too many power hungry egos in the equation.
 

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Desert-Lad said:

Applying math to government won't work. Too many power hungry egos in the equation.
I don't want much say at all. :zzz:
Just give me the decimal points, please.:thumbs2:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Smitty said:
The criminal still on parole does not get four yrs plus another few yrs but all of six months. Reason being they do not want to many criminals in jail as they lack jail space!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Joe Arpiao, the Sheriff of Maricopa Co. Arizona just puts up more tents for the inmates. They have to wear pink underwear and the sheriff uses pink handcuffs http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0114052pinkcuffs1.html ). His tent city has no TV, radios, newspapers, nothing. Just food, water, and a cot to sleep on. I love this guy. :thumb:
 
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