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Discussion Starter #1
I know this isn't Cruiserworld.com, but...


From: Motorcycle Online <[email protected]>

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 18:55:46 -0800 (PST)
To: [email protected]
Subject: Honda VTX1800 Test @Motorcycle.Com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The newest and most hard-core entry into the power-cruiser market is
Honda's VTX 1800. With bores nearly four inches wide and valves larger
than a P-51 Mustang's, this new Honda is all about power. Oh, it looks
pretty good, too.

We recently sampled the bike at the press intro in Santa Barbara and came
away quite inmpressed with the newest boulevard bad-ass..

Stop by Motorcycle.Com (http://www.motorcycle.com) to read all about it!

Maximum Respect,

Motorcycle Online | http://www.motorcycle.com/ | [email protected]
"The World's Largest and Most-Read Digital Motorsports Magazine"
 

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Not for me...

:RANT MODE ON:
I can see where the big cruiser market is going. Now that everyone is done trying to immitate the Harleys, they are actually coming up with some custom designs. I can appreciate that more than something that is a copy of an original, however, I still think that a Honda cruiser has no place in this world. I realize that they are very technologically advanced compared to Harley, but they simply do not have the charisma needed to inspire true cruiser feel (for me);). I've owned Intruders and Shadows and this new bike is no different than them, just with a better look that will appeal to more baby-boomers. If you want a cruiser that will make you feel like never going home [or leaving the shop(for accessories and service!)] buy a Harley, you'll never wish you'd bought the VLX.
:RANT MODE OFF:
They do have some nice custom peices for this bike though, and as soon as somebody makes drag pipes for it, I might be a little easier on it!:)
Cheers.
 

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There's a market for everything. Cruisers are BIG money makers! They're premium-priced (often more than sportbikes), and the people who buy them are older, affluent types. I'm sure there's an entire segment of the demographic pie chart that wants a "modern-looking" cruiser with modern performance (and Honda quality and reliability doesn't hurt). AND THE VTX IS DEFINITELY NOT A HARLEY IMITATION. I DON'T SEE THE RESEMBLANCE!!!!!!!! CAPS LOCK CAPS LOCK CAPS LOCK CAPS LOCK CAPS LOCK CAPS LOCK CAPS LOCK CAPS LOCK CAPS LOCK CAPS LOCK CAPS LOCK CAPS LOCK CAPS LOCK CAPS LOCK CAPS LOCK CAPS LOCK CAPS LOCK CAPS LOCK
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Re: Not for me...

machman said:
[BI still think that a Honda cruiser has no place in this world.
[/B]
Can I assume that you think the same of Kawasaki cruisers? If they have no place, don't you think sales would fall off? And obviously you don't know that profits from cruiser sales help considerably to fund the development of sportbikes.
 

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Re: Not for me...

machman said:
:I still think that a Honda cruiser has no place in this world.

Says who? I think Honda, and the other Jap. bikes, are doing a great job in the segment and the Harley riders are wonding just what the hell they spend all that money on. This VTX is going to PISS OFF some Harley Yuppies who just spent double the $$ on half the bike.


I realize that they are very technologically advanced compared to Harley
DAMN straight! So the appeal of a Harley is????? Poser status?


but they simply do not have the charisma needed to inspire true cruiser feel (for me);). I've owned Intruders and Shadows and this new bike is no different than them
NO different!?!? LOL! so you've ridden one? ~I think not and you are just making an ass-umption based on a Inturder and Shadows that you rode -back when-.

What is 'true cruiser' feel? I havent ridden the VTX, But I did ride my buddies Shadow Aero and I have ridden a 2000 Fatboy. I gotta tell ya, I would take the Honda. Even though the Honda had about 4k dumped into it to make it the sweet ride it is, it still comes in $7000 under the Fatboy sticker!!

...buy a Harley, you'll never wish you'd bought the VLX.
ITS A VTX MAN! Are we even talking about the same bike!! :rolleyes:
 

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So I guess you cancelled that 929 order Pete? Well, atleast it saved you the trouble of having to sell it.

That is a sweet ass bike. Just when I thought I didn't like cruisers anymore...dammit Pete, I might have to get one too.
 

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If I was going to get anything that big, I'd just get a new Wing. For an elephant bike, the new Wing is pretty impressive. The problem I have with the cruiser/hog bikes is that after a while they get boring. Not so with sporties.
 

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Best Defence...

El Diablo:
You should have read my post more carefully, we actually agree on most of this. What I said was that I appreciate this new bike better than something that is just a HD replica. I also said that I liked it with the custome add-ons, so I'm not sure why for the CAPS LOCK?

Pete:
Simply put, I hate cruisers that are not HD. That doesn't mean that I can't appreciate why someone else might want a non HD cruiser, it just means that I wouldn't ride one(title of post "not for me"). As for the money this brings to our sport, I think it's great, but again, I have never liked a Kawasaki cruiser either.

HondaNut:
You'll have a hard time finding owners that are pissed they bought a Harley. I've only met one in my time. I still think that somewhere deep down in side those same yuppies that decided to buy import cruisers have bike envy of Harleys. They might never admit it but they know that Harley Davidson has marketed their products so successfully that millions of people are willing to tattoo the company name on their arm. Do you have a Honda tattoo on your arm? I don't have a Kawasaki one either, but when I can afford to buy and customize the Fat Boy I've always wanted, I will definately think of adding HD to my list of "tattoos wanted"(already have some, and some in design). Since you can't read between the lines, charisma is what all this marketing has created. A Harley Davidson has the type of charisma and mass appeal that will never reach the import cruiser market. That's not to say that Kawi, Honda, Suz, and Yamaha won't make some awesome cruisers in the future, but women and children will still ask these owners at gas pumps and resaurants "Is that a Harley?". If you think anyone will ever walk up to a VTX owner and say "Is that a Honda?" you should get your head checked. Oh, and so sorry for the spelling error there tough guy.

Rant on boys, I love it. And yes, I'd rather be broke down on a Harley than riding an import cruiser.

Cheers:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
 

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Re: Not for me...

machman said:
:RANT MODE ON:
I still think that a Honda cruiser has no place in this world.
I'll remember that the next time I see the local Japanese cruiser group riding around here...I think Kawi, Honda and the rest have a big place in the cruiser world. I too have ridden both and I gotta tell you I'd take the Honda anyday over the Harley. Not to mention my wife has had a 2000 Shadow Sabre for over a year now and that is one of the sweetest looking bikes out there...not to mention reliable. Can't say that about many Harleys.

There's a market niche for everything and everyone. I'm very happy that the japanese manufacturers have gotten into and stayed very competitive in the cruiser market. Me personally? I wouldn't drop a dime on a Harley...in reality the real posers are the yuppies who are out shelling half house mortgages for a bike they don't know how to use and only use on Sundays... Why would I spend $30000 on a Hog when I can get 3 equal if not better bikes than a Harley?....So I can be a poser? I think not....

We all know there's a vast separation between Harley owners and Japanese cruiser owners. The same separation that exists between Most cruisers and any sportbike...What's wrong about this is that none of these groups gets very much respect from the other (in general) which is pretty sad when you consider we're all part of the same family....the riding family

Just my .02
 

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They ask at the pumps, "is that a Harley" the same way they ask me, "is that a Ninja bike". It is just what the see in the movies. Of course my answer to them is, "no, this one is fast". :D If Stallone and Swartzenegger had ridden Japanese cruisers in their movies in the 80s then Jap cruisers would be the thing.

My neighbors just bought Kawi Vulcans last summer and said they wouldn't own Harleys. They could have afforded either but they don't by into the Harley BS any more than I do. The waiting lists are total BS to allow more price gouging.

I do have a small place for Harleys because of the fact that people do individualize them. They have an artistic value to them. That is fine but the Jap cruiser folks are doing the same now.
 

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I'm sorry, but the points backing up Harley make no sense.

First, never seen a Harley owner who wasn't happy with their bike? Harley riders predominantly HATE japanese cruisers. It doesn't take a psych major to realize that someone who hates a bike that is faster, quicker, more reliable, cheaper, it's probably out of jealousy!!! I'm not saying all, but wouldn't anyone but Machman feel that way? I totally understand that (read: not poser value, there is more to it than that) Harley is one of the key players the cruiser world, and the Jap bikes wouldn't be here without it, and that some people want them for that reason, and for the rarity, etc. I just see it this way. It has that going for it, but how can you ignore the price, performance, realiability, and still swear upon Harley? Like someone said, they bend over their buyers backwards, all for a lesser machine, who wants to be a part of that? Not me. I have Ducati lust bad, so I understand the draw of something so mystical as a Harley, Ducati, Cagiva, etc. Unlike Harley though, they have very unique looks, close to par performance, and on par performance just high price on others, the gap is much narrower, and it's made up with sheer beauty.

In this market place, only the strong survive. The Japanese currently hold the cards for performance, price, reliability, and Harley holds the card in the styling/brand appeal department. I put those together because I don't think they have an advantage in looks really, so much as the HD nameplates. That name can only carry you so far. I have no doubt Harley will always be around, at least for a long time to come, but it certainly won't go anywhere. They'll still be making the same engines they've been making since from before I was born.

my 2 cents
 

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Thats funny, Im only 29 and have met a few ~not alot~ but at least 4 solid people that I can remember disliking their Harley, Or at least the fact that the POS is in the shop more than on the road.

I sound like I really hate Harleys, I dont. I actually REALLY liked riding that 2000 FatBoy I mentioned, but really, I dont think its worth the price. Just like a Lamborghini, if I had "STUPID" money, I would buy one.

How can you justify paying DOUBLE for a bike that is HALF as well built and will break down in the first year almost guaranteed! Look at the Buell recalls: It says "too many to list" "pitty the Buell owner out of warranty" !!!!! DAMN, never heard that about Honda or any other Jap. bike! LOL

On the bright side, Harley is finally developing a Modern Day engine! (liquid cooled, OHV, etc.) Woo hoo! only took... how many years?? Aww, well, we'll see how many recalls come out on that 'wonder motor'

The reason Harleys are so popular is their heritage and nostalgia--Thats It! People are just brainwashed into thinking a Harley is 'All that'. If you step out of the hype and dont just have a "follow the heard over the cliff" kinda mentality, you can obviously see that Harley is a just a namebrand.

I Definately dont have bike envy and I seriously doubt anyone who buys a VTX is going to either. Actually, if I had gotten a VTX, I would be proud to know that I didnt fall into the Harley Hype and instead bought the bike that is WAY more powerful, MUCH better build quality, LEAP YEARS in realiability, More than equal to-if not better- looking than any Hardly on the showroom at THOUSANDS of dollars saved!

In conclusion; Harleys are nice bikes, but they are not all that.

Tell me specifics of what you think makes Harley superior. This is kinda fun :)
 

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Point:
Tell me specifics of what you think makes Harley superior. This is kinda fun


Counterpoint:
They might never admit it but they know that Harley Davidson has marketed their products so successfully that millions of people are willing to tattoo the company name on their ass.


:D :D :D :D :D

Superior products don't need marketing wizardry to sell product. Since there reputation as a quality product sucks, they must rely on that James Dean tough boy image--that's getting pretty old if you ask me.
 

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Harleys?

Positive: Awesome marketing, a grand company history, Easy Rider, a pretty decent product (now), super resale value, gets lots of attention from non-bikers, huge aftermarket, they sound good, and it's American.

Negative: Excessive pricing, gouging dealers, inconsistent quality control, snotty riders, noise, obsolete technology, mediocre handling, pathetic racing record, lackluster performance, heavy and awkward at slow speeds, and they get stolen frequently.

Harley riders constantly knock Jap bikes because the Japs imitate Harley in the cruiser market, which is true. On the other hand, the Jap bikes are technologically superior and cost half as much. With the new cruisers like the Yamaha and the Hondas, and the Valkyrie, the acceptance of the Jap cruisers is more widespread. Still, my knock on the cruisers is that they get boring. Sportbikes don't.
 

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Do I have alot to say or WHAT ! ! !

But I'm busy right now gentlemen, (at least to give this my best go). I'll be back tomorow with my speal;).
Cheers:D
havin' fun now...
 

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when people say that the Jap bikes copy Harleys cruiser designs I dont quite understand. If thats the case, every car company in the world copies each other because they all have four wheels, one at each corner and doors on both sides.... See what I mean?

A cruiser is just a cruiser, if you made it look different, it would be a standard, or a tourer or whatever but it would not be a cruiser. Ok, you can say that maybe Harley was the first company to build what we consider a cruiser, but then you gotta say everyone copied Henry Fords automobile design.

I think we will all agree that there are ZERO interchangeable parts on a Harley and any Jap. cruiser, so where's the copy?

What about Indian? where they before Harley or did they copy them too?
 
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