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Can someone repost the article in here? I cant get to it...
 

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Never mind it finally worked... While I am in complete agreement about the companies gouging policies, I am not against giving them incentives to maximize production. After all I would rather be gouged by an american comany than OPEC. And paying even $9.00 a gallon is a whole lot better than not having any gas to buy
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Exxon's $10B fill-up: Cashing in on crunch
By Brett Arends
Wednesday, September 7, 2005 - Updated: 04:27 PM EST

Oil companies came under new fire yesterday when it emerged that ExxonMobil's profits are likely to soar above $10 billion this quarter on the back of the fuel crisis.
That's $110 million a day, and more net income than any company has ever made in a quarter. It's also a stunning 69 percent increase over the same period a year ago and a 34 percent jump from the $7.6 billion Exxon made just last quarter.
``Do you realize President Bush has just given a tax break to ExxonMobil?'' thundered Rep. Ed Markey (D-Malden). ``Of all the companies in the history of the world that needed a tax break, this month, ExxonMobil should be at the bottom of the list.''


The law gives incentives to producers such as Exxon to expand production, such as for drilling for new wells in deeper waters in the Gulf of Mexico.
``It makes me angry,'' agreed Rep. Marty Meehan (D- Lowell), noting rising fuel prices ``are going to have a negative ripple effect throughout the economy.''
Meehan yesterday sponsored legislation on Capitol Hill to penalize price ``gouging,'' assuming it can be agreed what that is. Markey is preparing for Energy Committee hearings on the fuel crisis.
Even oil company shareholders were critical. Hub fund manager Lee Forker, the head of New England Research & Management, said the profits reflected a failure of oil companies' leadership to invest in future production. ``They're maximizing present cashflows and ignoring the future,'' he said.
ExxonMobil is spending about $5 billion a quarter buying back its own shares.
Forker says the oil companies bear responsibility for recent shortages, because they have held back on investment in new production for years due to a fear of a price collapse. ``It could just be a big scam – `Let's just restrict the supply along with the OPEC countries and we'll all get rich together' '' he said.
Crude oil prices fell yesterday by $1.61 to $65.85 a barrel. Gasoline prices also eased slightly from late last week's panic.
But Lehman Brothers yesterday became the first Wall Street investment bank to issue a new profits forecast for Exxon following the week of post-Katrina turmoil, when gasoline prices surged as high as $3.59 a gallon in the Bay State and crude oil prices briefly topped $70.
 

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check this out and its right here in clinton twp.

pumps altered less gas sold then paid for

this is from yesterday's free press...two gas station owners rigged their pumps to pump less gas per dollar :finger: this is in Clinton Township :mad: I remember something similar in Dearborn... at the time some gas station owners were scaming 93 octane where you paid for 93 and got 89 :finger: shit like that can blow up a high compression engine a turbo or a supercharged motor. I am still weary about these scams when i fill up.
 

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Push the prices WAAY up to 3:50 a gallon and then drop them down to 299 and everyone thinks they are getting a hell of a deal...they have done this in the past and they continue to do it. The price never comes back down to where it was. Oh they are getting rich from this...surprise surprise. Phuckin nazi's. And Bush is giving them tax breaks. Thanks for putting your food down.
 

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LuckyStrike said:
How does a company making 110 MIL a day in profit need an incentive to do anything?
Its all about goals. The goal of the company is to make money plain and simple. Its a buisness, and I would expect no less from them. After all isnt that why most of us work? to get a paycheck?

The goal of the country (well one of the goals) is to secure an energy supply for the future. Given that we are not a socialist country (thankfully) we do this thru the private sector, that reaps the profits. But the goal of securing future supplies is not the companies goal, its the countries. The companies may very well be reluctant to take the risk (and yes there are many risks), or just plain dont want to do it. Thus they are coaxed into it by incentives. Its not that they need the money to do it, its that they need a reason to. We cant realistically expect a private company to act in the name of "national interest". They act in the name of profit.
Sure you can say that they will make plenty of profit later. Maybe, maybe not. After all they could loose their installation due to some war, or we could stop using gas, or they might get out manuevered by another company. Lots of things can happen.

Now I'm as upset as most about the companies gouging us. Granted, its a free market, and prices are dictated by supply, so our panicking and filling a tank everytime some news happen fuels a great deal of it, yet I cant help the feeling that we are being taken advantage off. But as much as it upsets me, I understand that having an energy supply, at any price, is more important than trying to save the money I feel the gas companies are "stealing" from me.
 

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some good points vash, but it's not a true free market - OPEC is a group of competitors fixing prices for their common profit. not legal to do in this country, but since opec is not here we have no choice but to suck it up
:finger:
 

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guru:
Yeah, there are a whole lot of deep issues there. Still the katrina price jump (from 2.50 to 3.00 a gallon locally) is not an open related event. oil jumped less than $5 a barrel, while gas jumped $0.50 a gallon. Obviously that wasnt caused by oil prices alone. Refineries shutting down had a great deal to do with that, but I think the general panic of buying gas had a great deal more. I really cant blame that last jump on OPEC.

Slick:
Reducing the ammount of oil we buy from opec sounds great but how do you accomplish it? In my opinion reducing our energy consumption isnt a realistic goal. Our economy is growing, and we will use more and more energy. Even with drastic increases in efficiency, just progress alone necessitates using more energy.
So that leaves us several options. 1. find a source of oil that isnt opec. 2. switch to an alternative source of energy 3. pressure opec into breaking up, or at least partially loosing cohesion.

Let me go abit deeper.
option one is highly political. the new iraq isnt a member of opec (I think) and thus provides a source. Domestic drilling is another source, and some former soviet republics are also oil rich. However china has its eyes set on those, and I'm not sure if we are ready for a showdown
option 2 is the holy grail. However, while there are alternatives, none of them are easy. I believe the best currently is the ethanol movement, for several reasons. 1. it is a renewable source of energy. 2. USA can grow more corn than any other country in the world, thus giving us a great advantage, and may turn us into an exporter. 3. very little modifications to engines and power plants and distribution networks are required, thus easing the conversion. While solar and wind also show potential, making the switch is much harder.
option 3, is what caused the great gas prices of the mid 90's iraq and iran were duking it out, while oil fell to $10 a barrel. However anything like that is extremly volitile in the political sence, and its nothing more than a temporary solution
 

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OPEC doesn't make shit compared to the oil compaies. I was reading somewhere that oil producing countries make around 1 dollar per barrel. Now 20 gallons of gasoline per barrel )not counting other by products) and opec makes 5 cents per gallon. State and federal taxes on gas are 10 times that. Gasoline is cheaper than water in the states. I think that the government and oil companies are behind the price structure 99% and opec 1%.
Its not simple macro economics where supply and demand rules govern. You drive you need gas they got you by the balls. My wife drives and expedition and was bitching about gas prices i told her to buy a hybrid simple.
US car manufacturers are gonna feel the heat big time since japan is making most of the hybrids in anticipation and we are left tailing behind.
Personally i think we should look into polititians, large companies, and our life style for the answer.
 

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When talking about these numbers it certainly does seem excessive, but the numbers have no context. Looking at them as Net Profit Margin (Net Income / Total Revenue) you can see that while the numbers are huge, their profit margin hasn't increased very dramatically. All numbers are from the ExxonMobil website and are in millions of dollars. I'm not sure what the best solution is, but just automatically saying a company needs to forfeit a portion of it's profits is not very realistic, unless they are just gouging the hell out of people and making huge profits. I wouldn't say 9% is out of the question. :2cents:
 

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spicersh said:
When talking about these numbers it certainly does seem excessive, but the numbers have no context. Looking at them as Net Profit Margin (Net Income / Total Revenue) you can see that while the numbers are huge, their profit margin hasn't increased very dramatically. All numbers are from the ExxonMobil website and are in millions of dollars. I'm not sure what the best solution is, but just automatically saying a company needs to forfeit a portion of it's profits is not very realistic, unless they are just gouging the hell out of people and making huge profits. I wouldn't say 9% is out of the question. :2cents:
I don't have a problem with them making profit, what I have a problem with is our gov't paying them incentives to keep themselves competitive. The company I work for doesn't receive gov't incentives to develop future manufacturing practices, it's something we have to do with our own profits to stay competitive. :2cents:
 

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jjkGURU said:
Not any more...
In some cases he's right. One store I found had 12 1.5L bottles on sale for $21.55. Doing the conversions that works out to be about $4.53/gallon, and that's buying in bulk. Imagine a 20 oz water from a gas station, what is it, $1? That works out to $6.40/gallon. :(
 
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