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Discussion Starter #1
On Wednesday the court dismissed a lawsuit brought by California parents who were outraged over a sex survey given to public school students in the first, third and fifth grades.

Among other things, the survey administered by the Palmdale School District asked children if they ever thought about having sex or touching other people's "private parts" and whether they could "stop thinking about having sex."

The parents argued that they -- not the public schools -- have the sole right "to control the upbringing of their children by introducing them to matters of and relating to sex."

But on Wednesday, a three-judge panel of the 9th Circuit dismissed the case, saying, "There is no fundamental right of parents to be the exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children...Parents have no due process or privacy right to override the determinations of public schools as to the information to which their children will be exposed while enrolled as students."

Judge Stephen Reinhardt, writing for the panel, said "no such specific right can be found in the deep roots of the nation's history and tradition or implied in the concept of ordered liberty."

"Anyone who wonders why pro-family organizations like ours have been so concerned about activist courts only has to look at this case," said a spokesman for Focus on the Family.

Carrie Gordon Earll, an issues analyst with Focus on the Family Action, called the ruling "one of the most abhorrent examples of judicial tyranny in American history.

"The 9th Circuit did more than rule against parents who were upset that their elementary-school-aged children were being asked explicit questions about sex in class. They told all parents they have no right to protest what public schools tell their children."

Earll said the court essentially declared parenthood unconstitutional.


"It's long been the liberal view that it takes a village to raise a child -- but never before have the 'villagers' been elevated, as a matter of law, above mothers and fathers.

"Every parent in America should shudder at this decision -- liberal or conservative, Democrat or Republican," Earll said.

The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals is the same court that struck down the Pledge of Allegiance in 2002 because of the phrase "under God."


Thoughts??



Jen
 

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that is plain fawked up.....
 

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yeah pretty effin stupid...i agree

but sometimes the truth and real reasons are hidden...you dont know who wrote that, as in you dont know their own views on the subject. you also don't know the exact views of the people interviewed. for example, when they say "Earll said the court essentially declared parenthood unconstitutional." yeah they essentially said it, that's putting words in peoples mouths. the court would never say that parents shouldn't be parents, this was one specific subject, and the court follows EXACTLY what the laws say or don't say, and if there is no law againts it then it's legal and people can't say shit about it.

yes i would be upset too, but if you had control of your house and you were good parents, you would know how to talk to your kids about it and be able to explain better what the survey was about and "sugar coat" it for your kids. i mean give it a damn rest, kids these days are having sex in middle school, even elementary school. what they hear on the playground is WAY worse than anything they ever hear or see in the classroom. so if the parents want to be pissed at somebody, they should be pissed at the other shitty parents in the world.

just my :2cents:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Neller....are you kidding??

If my FIRST grader (that would be next year for my 5 year old son) came home and said that they were asked questions on whether or not they could "stop thinking about having sex," I would be LIVID. Every parent I know would protest that school and burn the principal at the stake. Sure, when I was in 5th grade teachers put the girls in one room and the boys in another room and we learned about our own bodies. That's different. That's almost puberty age. SEX talk for a 6 year old?? FAWK that. They asked if they ever thought about having sex or touching other people's "private parts"?? You (well I) teach your kids very early that NO ONE is allowed to touch "private parts" and they they aren't allowed to touch anyone elses. That goes with don't talk to strangers. But asking them if they ever thought about sex? My kid would have to ask what that is! It's not even on his RADAR for Christ sake. That's opening a discussion that, IMO, 5 year olds are too young to understand. I won't give my kids full discloser until they are around 9 or 10....and for the teachers and schools to jump in ahead of me is rediculous. They weren't even INFORMED that it was happening!!! BullSHIT.
:finger:


Jen
 

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Well, they don't call it the 9th "Circus" Court for nothing!

It is the single, most overturned Appellate Court in the Nation.

They are a bunch of goofy SOB's who are pretty drunk with "Liberal" power.

We are pretty lucky to not be located in their district.
 

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my mom has a little sister in big bros/big sis program. she was in 3rd grade when this happened. she came over to our house, i was a senior in high school at this time. she was telling my mom about what happened in recess. she said "this boy named jeremy, i think he likes me" and my mom asked her why, and she said "because he did the h-word to me at lunch today on the playground" and my mom then said "oh he hugged you?" and she said "no, he got on top of me and humped me".

my neice is 6 right now. when she was in kindergarten, we took her out on the lake on my jetskis. she had to pee. my mom told her to go in the lake. she said, and i quote, "my cooch isnt long enough to do that grandma" and she had heard it at school and ever since has refered to a penis and a vagina as a "cooch" and knows what they are. my sister and her husband are probably two of the most protective, responsible parents around, and they were amazed that she had heard that at school.

just because your kids don't know what it is doesn't mean it's not true that kids that age know about sexual things. personally, i find it absolutely disgusting. i couldn't believe that a 3rd grader actually knew what "humping" was. but it's real, and it happens. feel lucky that your kids are hopefully not around other kids that know about these things. and like i said, for a school to be giving those surveys is pretty ridiculous at that age. however, you did say that you tell your kids that people aren't supposed to touch their private parts. therefore, what is the problem with asking them if it has happened?

i'm not trying to justify the school's actions or the survey, or even the court's actions because i have had other experiences with this court's rulings in my government classes. even though it seems ridiculous, there is no law stating that it is illegal, therefore it is legal and it can happen. it's sad but true. the good ole land of the free...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
What I like about the school system here is that my Kindergartner goes on the bus and to school with Preschool, Kinders and first graders only. I can just about garauntee that these kids aren't taking about it in school. After that, the next school up is 2nd - 5th graders. Perhaps the older ones might be.

Honestly, the biggest reason we moved here is because I saw the kind of kids that my kids would be going to school with. We saw them on the playground swearing at 5 and 6 years old. The older kids were lighting the woodchips on fire and drawing on the slide and other parts of the play structure. It was either move to a better school district or put them in private schooling.

I just think it's wrong for the courts to step in and tell "parents they have no right to protest what public schools tell their children." It's bullshit because our taxes money goes there. We are supposed to intrust them to our kids EDUCATION....math, english, science, etc. Leave the other stuff to the parents.

Lucky, didn't you post something a while back about how this 11 year old got pregnant and the parent just threw up her hands and said that it was the school's fault? That's the kind of shit that gets us verdicts like this. If parents were actually taking responsibility for their kids like they SHOULD this wouldn't even be an issue.




Jen
 

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well thank god you switched school districts and didn't go private, that's even worse.

btw, my parents are both public school teachers, my dad for 35 years and my mom for 27. and my dad taught at a private catholic school for 5 years. luckily they both are in real good districts, my dad's in davison and my mom's in clarkston. so moving to a better district is always a better choice than going private, although just makes it even harder for administrators and teachers to better the system when people move out and money goes away, but still i'd rather see more kids in public schools than private.
 

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asking 1st, 3rd, and 5th graders explicit sexual questions? :finger: what the hell is wrong with these people? general questions is one thing, but explicit is insane. i don't even have kids and i am well aware of the importance of a good school district - the better the school the fewer the shitty-parents neller was talking about...
 

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I say if the schools and gov't want to raise my kids "their" way then they need to start paying for ALL their expenses :twofinger

Until then.. leave my kids upbringing to ME :rolleyes:

E.
reckon we'll have to brainwash our kids to tell them when asked about anything not classwork related "My parent needs to be present to discuss such things" :thumb:
 

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Okay we had a discussion here at work about this because I passed this around the office. and I tell you this is disturbing to me. We can't talk about God in school, pray in school, or say the Pledge of alligance but they can talk about sex with my child and ask them those questions. Makes me think about home schooling if you ask me. Maybe we should pull our childern out of school so they can't get the tax money per child and hit them in there pocket books and see if they will listen then.
 

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be slow to make rash actions, not saying you would actually pull your kids out of school...but this is CALIFORNIA we are talking about, i mean here your kids dont have a teacher named Flower that has tatoos and a nose and tongue ring right? different living style, completely separate world from ours here...as you will probably see as your kids get older, MOST teachers here in michigan are more like you and would be similarly disgusted at the survey.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
If I had the time and patience, I would for sure homeschool. There is a huge movement towards this type of schooling. I personally know MANY moms homeschooling. The kids have play dates with each other at different places so it's not like they are just sitting at home all day. They seem to be way ahead as far as academics too. Three of the homeschool Kindergartners I know are reading at a first grade level and doing times tables in math already! I see nothing wrong with homeschooling.

I went to an all girl's Catholic high school. I believe those are the most sheltered of all kids. That might not be a "bad" thing though since 1/2 of the girls I graduated with were still virgins! (One still is at 31 if you can believe that!) I'd be happy if my little girl was still a virgin at graduation...but I'm realistic.

Pulling your kid out of public school isn't making a "rash decision." I think it's a decision that most parents would make if they had the time and money to send them somewhere else.




Jen
 

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Homeschooling has definitely been on the radar since I got pregnant. Indiana is a far cry from California, but things are getting goofy everywhere, and I am not sure I want my kid in school with a bunch of ill-mannered monsters, or educators that think teaching five and six year olds about sex is a good idea.

And before you say: "Oh, kids are just kids!" think about the little boy (about 6) that walked up to my one year old in the portrait studio this week, looked at her holding onto the stool in the lobby for balance and then *PLOP* right onto her tiny fingers! What the hell? I yelled at him and he looked shocked that someone told him he shouldn't be doing something. So he runs off and topples about 25 picture frames from a display, tries to get into our diaper bag and is just a general nusiance.

As they are leaving, the mom picks this kid up and says: "I am so proud of you for being such a GOOD boy!" :eek:

I hollered out: "Are you KIDDING me?!?" :laughing: Mom looked stunned and scurried out.


As for the intial post - I would be absolutely batshit crazy mad if my six year old came home and asked me about things she saw on a sex survey in SCHOOL! I don't care what that court of schmucks says, the state does NOT have the right to teach my child about that at SIX! I don't think a child that young even has a full comprehension of sex, they should only know that they have "private parts" and that NO ONE should be touching them! :mad:
 

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I don't really have anything to discuss about the survey thing, but as for what the schools teach our kids, you only have other shitty parents to blame for that. Kids gotta learn things somewhere, and it is usually left to the system because most to many parents dont have time, or just not enough balls to talk with their kids.
 

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exactly, and a lot of people don't realize that. so many people are so ignorant (not saying anyone here is) to the fact that they might be excellent parents, but there are a LOT of shitty parents in the world. so many parents just think that the school can raise their kids and they can go do whatever they want and not have to worry about it. now i know that it's hard for me to even talk about this subject since i am not a parent and i can't say how i would exactly feel, but i have a 7 year old nephew, 6 year old neice, and a 4 year old nephew...and talking to my brother and sister is good indication of how i would feel in similar situations. the thing is that many parents DON'T teach their kids that "private parts" shouldn't be touched, and there must have been some issues at this particular school in CA where kids were doing inappropriate things. now, say you lived in California, and your child went to school there, and you have told them that other people shouldn't touch their privates. The school has some kids there that do touch other kid's privates. Wouldn't you rather have these kids apprehended by asking the students if it has happened, and if so by who? I mean if you can tell your child that private parts shouldn't be touched, what is so horribly wrong with the school asking if it has happened? It's not like the school is putting words into your kid's heads that they haven't heard before. It seems to me that I would rather know if a kid in my child's classroom is touching other children's private parts and have something done about it than just wait until it happens to my child and my daughter came home and said "Little Johnny touched Jessica, Ashley, and me in our private areas today" cause then I would probably go beat the shit outta Johnny's dad, call his mother a disgusting whore, and then cause shit tons of trouble at that school for not controlling the children.
 

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Was that the situation, kids touching each other? Or was this a survey conducted so some muckety-muck could have data for a thesis or study?

If it's the former, then a mailing needs to go home to parents making them aware of the situation so that responsible parents can deal with their own child.

If the school knows that inappropriate condcut is occuring, then they need to deal with the offender(s), not poll young children on sex. And I would still be mad.

If it is the latter, then I would be mad as hell and someone's ass would be on a platter.

When I was in school and about to have "sex ed", I had to take a permission slip home that outlined what would be covered in the class, and I had to bring it back, signed by a parent. If my parent didn't want me exposed, they said "No" and I would have been put into study hall.

Why is this different?
 

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My 13 yr old brought such a slip home last year that asked permission :thumb:

It was presented by the Health Dept. and you could choose for your kid to go to the library instead....

The literature and plan of disscussion was well put together and it was nothing I hadn't already talked to her about just a bit before that... so it was kinda nice for her to hear it again but I still think parents need to be responsible for their own children and quit relying on others to do it for them.. otherwise don't have kids...

E.
 
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