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Detroit high school shooting injures 3
February 2, 2001
Student dies after shooting outside Baltimore high school
January 17, 2001
Student killed in Michigan elementary school shooting
February 29, 2000
Suspect in custody after school shooting in Oklahoma
December 6, 1999


This is an all too common occurance these days.
 

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it seems like everyones trying to get attention like that nowadays.. when I was in school, the troubled ones just put soap in the fountains and pulled the fire alarms... I'm glad I don't have any kids for fear of this all....
 

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This is what happens when discipline goes out the window. Children today have no respect for anything but MTV. A bulletin for you young parents: That timeout in the corner bullshit doesn't work.
It is refreshing to know that they are killing each other off before they become a real burden on society.

When they start locking up the parents of the gun toting losers then the guns will be better protected.

Parents of today(typically) are not doing their job. They want the schools to raise their kids but not discipline them. Big mistake.

Just a bunch of little punk ass Puff Daddy/Marilyn Manson wannabes.

:mad:
 

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It's a vicious cycle. The more publicized these things are, the more likely another is going to happen. It's too bad these kids can't see that whatever they think is soooo important right now (like feeling inferior to the athletes or whatever) isn't worth ruining your life or especially others'.
 

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"A bulletin for you young parents: That timeout in the corner bullshit doesn't work.
It is refreshing to know that they are killing each other off before they become a real burden on society. "


I agree, the timeout is a load of Psycho-babble bullshit. Unfortunately, society has bought off on it and told parents that it's unacceptable to spank your child. Especially while I was in the Nave, I talked with several parents that were in a world of shit by the Family Protective services (read: Nazi's) for simply trying to disipline their children. I do agree that many parents do let there children run wild; but I think in this world of single parent families, the roles of a parent have changed considerably from the time the baby boomers grew up in. No more Leave it to Beaver. The Beev has a Tek-9 now!
 

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Non-Parenting Parents

True-er words have never been spoken. These types of incidents will not end if parents don't start actually raising their kids. This "non-discipline" is just bulls*t, but peaople are acually promoting lame parenting.

A sad but true example: After my divorce my ex asked if I would meet with the kids(9 and 5) and a shrink. She was unable to control the kids and thought it was my fault. She is against spanking and physical punishment. I believe in it as long as it's appropriate. The shrink lectured me on the evils of physical punishment, and "provoked my young boy into a tantrum. He then demonstrated the propper way to control a childs outbursts. He pinned my sons arms and legs to the floor and rested his body weight on top of him to restrain him. My son went beserk, and coughing and saying he couldn't breath(the fat bastard weighs about 230lbs). I grabbed him off my son and proceded to inform him of the consequences of placing his hands on one of my children again. To me that was far more abusive than a spanking ever could be.

Side note......It's not a good idea to "explain" things to a shrink when you are going through a divorce. It almost came back to haunt me in court later.
 

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Some of you guys got it all wrong about that "time out" routine of disciplining children. I have an 11-year old which I used time out as a punishment and it worked like a dream. How do I know? My kid is as good as they come. Responsible, get's great grades in school, does chores, doesn't talk back, nothing I can complain about. The secret to time out being effective is when you back it up with positive reinforcement when they do good. Give them the right type of attention. Let them know you care about EVERYTHING that happens to them. Show them how much you love them when they're good. I guarantee you, when you do that, then you take it away by giving them time out, it devastates them to the point where they will do the good things just to please you. Those parents that used time out and it didn't work....that's because they rarely paid attention to their kids when they did well. So what difference does it make? The key is paying attention. The key is caring about your children. Do that from day one until they're 8 or 9. After that, the foundation is set and they will know right and wrong. They'll be so afraid to let you down because they just want to keep you happy. It's a tough balancing act but it can be done effectively if parents put enough time and effort. Isn't that a concept! Put time and effort in raising your kids. This is afterall the most important thing you will ever do in your entire life. You can screw up your job. Screw up your finances. Screw yourself up. But by God, don't screw up raising your kids!

I remember when I was a kid and my parents spanked me. Each time that leather belt hit my butt, I felt pain. But more than that, I felt anger. And as I got older, say around 8 and I got spanked, I just didn't cry anymore and instead I rebelled. Spanking wasn't much of a deterrent. Ask me how I deal with things NOW when I get upset...my first reaction is to lash out and hit something. Something to do with all the spanking I would imagine. Thank God I was able to suppress that when I was raising my kid. Spanking children won't guarantee they'll grow up happy and well adjusted either. All we know is using pain as a discipline tool is counterproductive when you're trying to raise responsible, loving human beings. If you give them enough pain, both mental & physical, they will likely lash out someday. Like animals who are physically abused then lash out at their masters or just go berserk killing everything in sight. Ever seen those on TV with elephants & Lions???!!! Why would you inflict phsical & emotional pain on someone you love just because they misbehaved? I believe time out, when balanced with caring and positive attention works the way it was intended to: raise happy, loving, responsible adults.

Sorry for the long rant.
 

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Rouge Biker,

I hear you and even agree to some extent BUT... being third of seven kids myself and having three of my own now with the youngest at 15, I can assure you that different kids respond differently to the same treatment. The trick is knowing which one, when, and how much. Out of my parent's seven, with the youngest at 35 now, they didn't have one miss. Every one of them is tops in their field, get along with ANYBODY, and genuinely nice, honest, fun people. I for one, got some physical persuasion now and then and damn well needed it. With my kids now, I've only resorted to physical on rare occasions. I can count the times on two hands with fingers to spare, and so far so good. Actually, they're old enough now that if they don't have it yet, they aren't going to get it. The spanking days, when it can be effective, are long gone. I had one who needed a little, one who needed none, and one who knew how to get right to the edge, but quit in time. They're all pretty independant and doing fine. One thing, regardless of how you handle it, they have to know that you care.
 

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JL1314 said:
it seems like everyones trying to get attention like that nowadays...
This is a sad story. You have to wonder if they are trying to get attention. People should relize that the media blows events like this up just so they can get ratings. These are enormous attention getters and also put the ideas into some peoples heads. We have to wonder why these kids are able to come to this point. Were his parents neglegent or were his surroundings hostile, or both? Why?

I like to be informed about things but not to that point.
 

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Todays society.....

is growing further and further from the moral foundation in which this great country was founded upon. Our founding fathers had what were and still are....MORALS! They were followers of God, not followers of punk ass rock stars who are very commonly some sorry, no good, worthless losers...who can sing-big freaking deal. Everyone thinks they know everything, and they all have their own theory about how things aught to be. Who are all of you going to put their faith and trust in? Some other "educated" human? So who does know what they are talking about? Where do I go to learn about the ways of life and how I need to live? How can I be assured that what I am doing is right? That rock star? The professional wrestler? A politician? Nope. For this world to be a better place, people need to follow God and his teachings. But that will never be. The majority will never do so. God has written us a guide for all of these problems, but nobody cares. They all know better, right? After all, its beyond the 90's now. Things change, right? God just sort of took a back seat, I guess.
Well, I believe that the majority of the peoples problems all stem from having no foundation in life. And it just spreads from there. It's all in the upbringing-the parents, who nowadays are only kids themselves. Go figure. If anybody cares to follow the Bible and what our Lord has provides us with, you'd know that it was never intended for there to be single parents, never intended for there to be divorces...
All this crap that goes on in this world is going to stay. I just hope that more people come to their senses.
READ THE BIBLE! ITS OUR GUIDE AND OUR LAW!
Teach your kids right from wrong, love them, dicipline them when needed. Spare the rod, spoil the child.
Be good.
 

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I agree that spanking is not the only way. As mentioned you have to know your children. My two brothers and I were each different when it came to discipline. I don't know why they called me a baby though. :D

I think if you teach children respect towards others and the difference between right and wrong then you will have done the best you can. :)
 

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Dad said:
Rouge Biker,

I hear you and even agree to some extent BUT... being third of seven kids myself and having three of my own now with the youngest at 15, I can assure you that different kids respond differently to the same treatment. The trick is knowing which one, when, and how much.
[snip].....One thing, regardless of how you handle it, they have to know that you care.
I would have to agree with you there. I'll admit that I did slap my kid's butt TWICE in her life as she was growing up. That's when her behavior became a bit excessive on a couple of occassions. I think it hurt ME more than it hurt her. But I never made it a point of using spanking or belting as a type of punishment whenever she misbehaved. I know this was done in the past and was considered acceptable then, but I just couldn't imagine doing that to my kid. It was done to me and I didn't like it one bit. Anyhow, you're right. Always let them know you care and love them. That's most important.
 

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I don't get it anymore...what is the need to take out your schoolmates with a gun?This only proves your a bigger loser then people thought before you started bustin caps.We used to get in a fight and it was over.....you blew off some steam and then got over it.Are the kids nowadays so spineless they have to bring guns to school?And where are the parents....you mean to tell me your kid is psycotic and you can't tell?Get in touch with your kids and whats going on in their lives.You don't have to prove to everyone how bad you've been treated and how mad you are that your being picked on by bringing a gun to school and shooting inocent kids.....if your that pathetic and just can't figure out what to do....just go out in the middle of a field someplace and blow your brains out ....then nobody else gets hurt....
 

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Re: Todays society.....

tech32 said:

All this crap that goes on in this world is going to stay. I just hope that more people come to their senses.
READ THE BIBLE! ITS OUR GUIDE AND OUR LAW!
Teach your kids right from wrong, love them, dicipline them when needed. Spare the rod, spoil the child.
Be good.
Well, just take a look at Clinton's presidency! Makes one wonder what type of morals we're teaching the world. That SOB pretends to attend Church every Sunday, cry during sermon, feel passionate about people's well being, then he goes on cheating on his own wife and lying to the people he swore to serve. I'm sorry to bring that up but it just angers me that many people look at him as a hero. Same way Magic Johnson is hailed as a "role model" by inner city kids. A role model that cheated on his spouse and got AIDS as a result?? C'mon! Hollywood and Television is the "new" Bible nowadays for kids. We treat celebrities like God's don't we? They're a bunch of lying, cheating SOB's too just like Clinton & Johnson.
 

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Tech32, I think you hit the nail right on the head!!I believe that many kids don't have a strong moral foundation, and tend to make some REALLY bad life decisions because of it...You have 40 percent of 12 year olds performing oral sex, because it "not really sex"..WTF??Kids leading the alternative lifestyle, because the media says it's "ok"...And those stupid rave parties????I hear stories at work, where there are 12 and 13year old GIRLS at these parties,, staying out all night doing the deed, with WHOEVER, all while they are on xstacy...I'm not an old timer, but I wonder what these kids think there future will be, making foolish choices???It's sad, but these same losers will be running the show down the road......Jimmy G...........
 

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WTF, where were all of these cheap sluts when I was growing up :D .
 
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Rug Burn said:
WTF, where were all of these cheap sluts when I was growing up :D .
Not to mention those female teachers sleeping with their 14 yr. old male students. Damn, what I would have given for that when I was that age; surely my eyesight would have lasted longer. ;)
 

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What's the answer?

I didn't mean to sound like I was saying everyone should go out and beat their kids into submission. You do have to know your kids and what will work. Now that my boy is 8 years old he will gladly take a spanking(and has actually asked for it) over taking his bicycle away. I wonder where he get's that?.........Please don't take MY bike away! LOL.

What I find amazing is that it really seams no-one has an answer in solving these problems. No-one wants to blame the parents, legally or publicly, so what do we do? Several years ago when I worked as a cop for a city police dept. I spent some time as a school resource officer. This type of situation was actually a training senario. Could I have stopped it? NO WAY. All I could do was react. We taught kids what to do in case it happened, and actually had drills just like fire drills. These kids are looking for attention, but I would be willing to bet they really don't plan on living through the ordeal. They think they are punishing other students, teachers, and their parents.

Someone has already said it. You have to know your kids, and make sure they know you care. Know their friends, and know what they do. Know their friends parents. I think another big thing is extra-curicular activities. Sports, band, clubs etc. These go a long way to boost self worth and discipline. Then, lie awake at night and hope others are doing the same thing.
 

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Rug Burn said:
WTF, where were all of these cheap sluts when I was growing up :D .
When I was 15, I went to a party and met up with one of them cheap 14-year old sluts. I don't think she was on Xstasy but she rocked my world that night let me tell ya! :p

You grew up in the wrong place! :D
 
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