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Discussion Starter #1
As long as he calls in sick for any debates. This President is through dealing against John John. Just listening to them give their speeches makes you realize how long its been since we had a President that knows how to present himself in front of people.
 

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S370HSSV 0773H
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I can certainly agree that Bush is not a strong public speaker. I don't however think that it means Kerry is a better choice.

Public speaking does not equal an ability to lead, IMO.


On a lighter note, anyone seen this? It's been out for a while, but funny as hell.

www.jibjab.com
 

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spicersh said:
I can certainly agree that Bush is not a strong public speaker. I don't however think that it means Kerry is a better choice.

Public speaking does not equal an ability to lead, IMO.

Totally agree with you. President Bush doesn't exactly present himself as an intelligent person, and having(I know I'm going to get hammered for this one) that "person from Texas" attitude doesn't help either. However, out of the two candidates, I think President Bush ought to get re-elected.
 

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If we're basing the ability to lead on public speaking prowess, we're in dire straits no matter which way we cast our votes. I wouldn't classify either candidate as being strong public speakers. :2cents:

The more I look into them, the fewer differences I really see. I don't know that it will matter one way or the other who people vote for this year. The one thing I will say is that I think Bush has taken firm stances on issues while Kerry continues to plant both feet firmly on either side of the fence. Whether or not I agree with his policies, I at least respect Bush for taking a stance and sticking to it. I'm still pretty much undecided though. Too much can happen between now and then to make a firm decision yet.
 

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As a long time observer of politics and policy, I see major differences and will support Kerry, hands down, no contest. Nice speech, no surprise.

For those who are shocked, take several deep breaths, get up slowly, and be careful not to bump your head.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Knowing how to speak and present your case as a leader is very important. Other countries would of been willing to help us in Iraq if George Bush did not come across as a Trailer Park attendant. His rhetoric infuriates people, is un willingness to meet at a common ground the way he talks down to the camera the long pauses as he tries to remember if he turned of the stove. He is weak the world is complicated so are the issues that Kerry changes his mind about I change my mind at work everyday especcially when new evidence or people that work for me need a change. Bush's argument about Kerry changing his mind is as weak as the people that will vote for him. Thank god most of them don't vote.
 

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Do you want to hear what was actually said or what the actual policy directions are? Here's Kerry's site. Check it all out but especially the "Rapid Response" section for some insight on the items he is accused of flip-flopping on, like voting for the war. When you hear what was said, what the reasoning behind it is, then hear the accusations from GW and company, you'll have a hard time recognizing them as the same subject. That is a place to look as Bush's team comes out with their venomous distortions, sure to come, in large doses, as much as millions upon millions of dollars can buy.


http://www.johnkerry.com/index.html
 

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falconeight said:
Knowing how to speak and present your case as a leader is very important. Other countries would of been willing to help us in Iraq if George Bush did not come across as a Trailer Park attendant. His rhetoric infuriates people, is un willingness to meet at a common ground the way he talks down to the camera the long pauses as he tries to remember if he turned of the stove. He is weak the world is complicated so are the issues that Kerry changes his mind about I change my mind at work everyday especcially when new evidence or people that work for me need a change. Bush's argument about Kerry changing his mind is as weak as the people that will vote for him. Thank god most of them don't vote.
While I agree with your first statement, I would still contend that neither candidate is strong in the public speaking arena. Sales of Ambien have probably fallen off as all one needs now is a good Kerry speach.

Your second statement is pure speculation, based on absolutely no facts. It is your opinion, and is taken as such. I hope others recognize this as well.

The rest of what you said is the typical attitude I see of Kerry supporters. It is exactly this type of attitude that makes me not want to vote for him, as I would be associating myself with those people. This is a disservice to Kerry though, just as would be deciding not to vote for Bush based on the religious zealots that support him. Hopefully I will be able to evaluate each candidate based on their own merits, or lack thereof, and not the views of other voters. I would hope others do the same and not be simple sheep.

Kerry's indecisiveness may seem to some to be the product of a well thought out man addressing complicated issues. Others see it as simply blowing with the political wind. Which is right and which is wrong nobody can say save for themselves. I think Kerry looks wishy-washy, and strikes me as the kind of person who just says what people want to hear, sort of. In saying what people want to hear, he really never commits himself to one side or another of any issue. He certainly is a true politician, through and through. Bush also seems to say whatever people want to hear, and he apparently isn't too good at reading the cue cards. He doesn't however use this noncommital brush to paint every topic.

Personally I will probably wait to make my decision until shortly before the election. Weak, IMO, is making up one's mind absolutely before all the facts are presented.

I'm really not interested in debating Bush vs. Kerry anymore. At least not on this site. It's been done to death and there are only so many times you can hear "he's an idiot and he's got to go" as one of the primary arguments.
 

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I have to agree with Spicer(man) on this one. Kerry is doing the same crap Clinton did. Tell EVERYONE EXACTLY what they WANT to hear.... Will he deliver?? I HONESTLY don't believe it....and as far as his strange ass wife.......she's a TOTAL fruit cake...Like Clinton speech about adding 1 million police officers, yada yada yada...
ALL CRAP!!!



And Falcon eight, aren't you breaking some kind of rule, by dissing YOUR commander in chief while on active duty????
You should lay off on that stuff, cause it ONLY makes you look like a big crybaby...( not a personal attack, just an observation)

BTW...what kind of CIC do you think Kerry would make?
I don't even want to THINK about THAT one....



Jimmy G
 

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jimmyjr said:
I have to agree with Spicer(man) on this one. Kerry is doing the same crap Clinton did. Tell EVERYONE EXACTLY what they WANT to hear.... Will he deliver?? I HONESTLY don't believe it....and as far as his strange ass wife.......she's a TOTAL fruit cake...Like Clinton speech about adding 1 million police officers, yada yada yada...
ALL CRAP!!!



And Falcon eight, aren't you breaking some kind of rule, by dissing YOUR commander in chief while on active duty????
You should lay off on that stuff, cause it ONLY makes you look like a big crybaby...( not a personal attack, just an observation)

BTW...what kind of CIC do you think Kerry would make?
I don't even want to THINK about THAT one....



Jimmy G
And just what policy of his causes you these concerns?

And since when is a US citizen not allowed to have an opinion and in fact, climbs all of the way to cry baby status when he does? The right wing only wishes it was like that but hasn't succeeded with that one. Holding prisoners in Guantanamo Bay for years without opportunity to be charged or legally advised ain't a bad start though.
 

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Dad said:
And since when is a US citizen not allowed to have an opinion and in fact, climbs all of the way to cry baby status when he does? The right wing only wishes it was like that but hasn't succeeded with that one. Holding prisoners in Guantanamo Bay for years without opportunity to be charged or legally advised ain't a bad start though.
The left wing wishes the same thing, just not when a right wing president is in power.

I agree with you that absolutely everyone has the right to their opinions. I just ask that that courtesy be extended by both sides.
 

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spicersh said:
The left wing wishes the same thing, just not when a right wing president is in power.

I agree with you that absolutely everyone has the right to their opinions. I just ask that that courtesy be extended by both sides.
If the Democrats had originated Guantanamo Bay, they would be wrong, too. Sainthood is not reserved for politicians of either party. The right's having trouble with that.;)

Has the left been stopping somebody from having an opinion?

I'm quite encouraged by the suggested policy changes of Kerry's. They are refreshingly new. :thumb:
 

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The filth that's housed at Guantenamo bay, wasn't braought there
, "just because"...Those guys HAD to be pretty hardcore/dangerous to end up there. They can Friggin STAY there until they rot. Now as far as having an opinion. EVERYONE is entitled to an opinion. My problem is when someone is ON ACTIVE DUTY, They shouldn't be bashing a superior officer, especially the HIGHEST superior on a public forum.


SO what's the next discussion point...I'm all ears....
Will it be that the US is anti Muslim???That this is a HOLY war?? I don't believe so...
If we were, we wouldn't have helped stop Milsovec and his ethnic cleansings. REALLY was there any oil in that for us??I can't think of anything that Kosovo has to offer.( Natural resource wise)...So why is it so wrong that we ousted Hussein???Should we have just let that crap go on and on???where does it end??


You have to realize that the terrorist scumbags aren't normal folks. They are sick twisted individuals that will stop at NOTHING to ruin your day. Leaving Iraq alone would be like leaving a nice dry grassy field in the path of an oncoming forest fire. Sometimes you need to assert a preemptive strike.


Jimmy G
 

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Dad said:
If the Democrats had originated Guantanamo Bay, they would be wrong, too. Sainthood is not reserved for politicians of either party. The right's having trouble with that.;)

Has the left been stopping somebody from having an opinion?

I'm quite encouraged by the suggested policy changes of Kerry's. They are refreshingly new. :thumb:
While I agree the open-ended detaining is wrong (for both citizens and non-citizens), at this point it's really neither here nor there as far a who started it. I'm interested in seeing who is willing to do something about it. I haven't come across Kerry's position, but haven't looked everywhere yet. My guess is that, regardless of what he says right now, he'll likely not change much if anything about it if he is elected.

As far as the left stopping people from opining, they fervently attack anyone with a dissenting belief just as the right wing does. I see a lot more left wing opinions out there with little to no criticism while the moment a right wing one hits the press it's attacked unrelentlessly. Just my observation, but I have been looking for it from both sides. It exists on both sides, but the left is far better at it IMO.

I'm excited about the stated policy changes of Kerry too. Hell, I'm excited about the stated policies of Bush. Rarely it seems that the stated policies of either party make it to the real world.

To be honest with you, the more I examine both candidates the more I am leaning towards not voting at all, at least in the presidential election. A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.
 

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jimmyjr said:
The filth that's housed at Guantenamo bay, wasn't braought there
, "just because"...Those guys HAD to be pretty hardcore/dangerous to end up there. They can Friggin STAY there until they rot.


SO what's the next discussion point...I'm all ears....
Will it be that the US is anti Muslim???That this is a HOLY war?? I don't believe so...
If we were, we wouldn't have helped stop Milsovec and his ethnic cleansings. REALLY was there any oil in that for us??I can't think of anything that Kosovo has to offer.( Natural resource wise)...So why is it so wrong that we ousted Hussein???Should we have just let that crap go on and on???where does it end??


You have to realize that the terrorist scumbags aren't normal folks. They are sick twisted individuals that will stop at NOTHING to ruin your day. Leaving Iraq alone would be like leaving a nice dry grassy field in the path of an oncoming forest fire. Sometimes you need to assert a preemptive strike.

Jimmy G
... and they should be charged as such and allowed to answer those charges. That is all. As fundamental a principle as we have and at the core of why we are a great country. When we deny rights or are selective in their application, we have stooped to their level and they have just won another battle. We are better than that and shouldn't allow it to go on in our name.

As far as Hussein, you talk as if NOTHING was being done which is patently wrong. Found any WMD or delivery systems in Iraq yet? We know they had them at one time. As far as how long were we to wait, just when WILL this thing be over? Very few will argue that Hussein wasn't a bad guy. Many, the world over, will argue that the chosen method of dealing with him was WRONG. We will be paying for this in many ways for a long time to come. As Kerry has said, sometimes you need to go to war when ALL other avenues have failed. We were not at the end of our options and the evolving facts are demonstrating that more each day.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
jimmyjr said:
And Falcon eight, aren't you breaking some kind of rule, by dissing YOUR commander in chief while on active duty????
You should lay off on that stuff, cause it ONLY makes you look like a big crybaby...( not a personal attack, just an observation)

BTW...what kind of CIC do you think Kerry would make?
I don't even want to THINK about THAT one....

Jimmy G [/B]
We argue about this stuff at work all the time George Bush is a elected official and as long as I don't do anything while wearing the uniform I am fine. You should of seen all the shit talking when Clinton was in office. Kerry would and will make a way better Commander in Chief than George Bush. Bush has no idea what it takes to be a soldier. He thinks one of Tobi Keiths songs sums it up. Its not Glorious its not exotic its hard work that is done by the bottom of the U.S. food chain.

I for one am tired of hearing that George Bush is a better war time President or that he is better at fighting the war on terrorism. What qualifies him? What has he done to earn that distinction? Is it because he acts like a tuff guy? Is it because he is a republican? He had the best Generals tell him that Iraq would require lots of soldiers and lots of money. Men that have been doing it for over 40 years. Not running the cubs, or executing people in Texas real war fighters. You know what he did? he fired them. Now Generals are being moved up to fill the spaces. And what happens when you do that. First shit like what happened in Abugharib. Then moral, then you start losing the best people. The man has done nothing but set-up a political career of his fathers name who by the way was a good President and Commander in Chief.

This President has single handedly lost the war on terrorism the minute he alienated us from the rest of the world. His coalition of the willing is false and should piss Americans off whenever he says that word. We have a Large organization called NATO when it strikes a blow countries listen, its not called the coaliton of the willing no respects that. You don't think that the Iraqi men attacking our soldiers don't know that no one supports what we are doing their. We have no friends none. Maybe a politician here and their but as soon as a country elects a new leader its on the grounds of opposing our country. In The First Iraqi war it was a coalition, when you looked around you saw monster fromations from other countries. In Bosnia and Kosavo it was a coalition that even had the Russians help out(the Russian our mortal enemy). I hardley count the 63 Phillipinos as a coaliton. 9,000 brits is the biggest. We have 160,000, 9,000 is not even enough run a sector.

This President did one thing good. He went to the site when the towers fell down. Some people call it Patriotism I call it lucky. Real Americans saw 9/11 as a uniting eye opening event he saw it as a way to amnipulate people. Even the congress that Oked his war to remain united.
 

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From what I remember.......We gave an ultimatum...Hand us all your documents pertaining to weapons programs or else...He failed to do that and we went in. He WAS given a choice....He chose poorly, and we had to react....turn to current page....
 

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jimmyjr said:
From what I remember.......We gave an ultimatum...Hand us all your documents pertaining to weapons programs or else...He failed to do that and we went in. He WAS given a choice....He chose poorly, and we had to react....turn to current page....
WOW! I never realized just how simple foreign policy was! All that time wasted screwing around with sanctions when the answer was staring us in the face the whole time. Could you call at least one other person, hmmm, need to narrow it down, let's say.......THE REST OF THE WORLD! ... and let them in on this? Tell them to pass it on.

Jimmy for President!
 

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Dad said:
... Found any WMD or delivery systems in Iraq yet? We know they had them at one time. As far as how long were we to wait, just when WILL this thing be over?
We've been looking for evidence of

chemical weapons in Iraq for less

time than it took Hillary Clinton to

find the Rose Law Firm billing records.




"As Kerry has said, sometimes you need to go to war when ALL other avenues have failed." [/B][/QUOTE]




FDR...

led us into World War II.

Germany never attacked us: Japan did.

From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost,

an average of 112,500 per year.


Truman..

finished that war and started one in Korea,

North Korea never attacked us.

From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost,

an average of 18,334 per year.


John F. Kennedy...

started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.

Vietnam never attacked us.


Johnson...

turned Vietnam into a quagmire.

From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost,

an average of 5,800 per year.


Clinton...

went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent,

Bosnia never attacked us.

He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter

three times by Sudan and did nothing.

Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.


In the two years since terrorists attacked us

President Bush has ....

liberated two countries,

crushed the Taliban,

and crippled al-Qaida.

He put nuclear inspectors in Libya,

Iran and North Korea

without firing a shot,

and captured a terrorist who slaughtered

300,000 of his own people.

"Leaving Iraq alone would be like leaving a nice dry grassy field in the path of an oncoming forest fire. Sometimes you need to assert a preemptive strike."
Jimmy G

Exactly!!!!:thumb:
 
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