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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Note: I am not a Democrat or Republican, I hate politics but realize that it is the way this country works, I am not expressing any views what-so-ever in any of the following topics. If you are a strong left, right, center, whatever, keep your opinions to yourself because I do not want this thread to turn into a huge battle, I merely want to inform everyone of this film. Thanks.

www.fahrenheit911.com


Hopefully all of you have heard about this documentary which is set to hit theaters nationwide this Friday, the 25th of June 2004. If you have ever seen Bowling for Columbine you will know what you are in for. If you haven't I suggest to go rent it.

Yes this is an anti-war movie, yes it is anti - Bush, and yes, it is all based on fact (this issue has been brought up in such publications as Newsweek, in which their claims were all refuted with documented research from the government). I'm not going to be the one to defend this movie; yes I am glad someone is finally stepping up with the balls to speak out on issues that have been brushed under the rug on a topic that is very close to the public's "heart" but everyone is entitled to their own opinions. However, I think it is important for everyone who considers themselves to be an "American" to see this film, and especially if you are an American with an opinion. If you are an individual who is anti-bush/war you will obviously be pleasantly entertained and outraged. If you are a pro-bush/war activist, yes you will be unpleasantly entertained and outraged. If you are a fence sitter, well, maybe this will throw you over to one side or another. Either way, it is better to have an informed opinion than an uninformed one.

To be a hipocrit... It is MY opinion that the majority of the American Public (including myself) is in the dark regarding 90% of "what goes on" with this government. I feel that anyone who has ever complained about the government should do more than complain, they should get informed. We all ride motorcycles (or would like to, or have at one point), and therefore we all realize (or I should hope we realize) the importance of informed decision making. I can guarentee you that you will not walk away from that theatre unmoved... what you do after you leave is up to you. Do everyone a favor, go see it... thank yourself (or hate yourself) later.
 

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In keeping with your request to keep political opinions out of this, I'll just say that I know enough about Michael Moore to not be interested in this film at all, and that doesn't make me less of an American.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The above is a PERFECT example of the type of reply I was looking for... thanks Spicersh
 

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Kyle said:
The above is a PERFECT example of the type of reply I was looking for... thanks Spicersh
:laughing:

Care to explain Mr. Holier-Than-Thou? :huh:

All I meant by my post was that I've seen enough of his "facts" debunked to realize what he is: a political satirist, not a maker of factual documentries. I believe he has every right to voice his opinions and I don't care one way or another who shows the film or who sees the film. If this labels me a "right-wing" or "un-American" in your view, then so be it. :dunno:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Haha... its just not too often someone actually follows a request like that. If you want I could edit the post to a more sbw friendly version, something like, "thanks a**hole for not spewing your political garbage here" :p
 

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Oh I have no doubt that people will chime in with political opinions, and I have a pretty good idea of who they will be, but I just wasn't gonna be the one to start it. :D
 

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Ok...

Politics is my thing and I have truely stayed out of EVERY political thread in SBW. I have not seen it this movie, however, I intend to. This is the kind of movie that compel people talk politics and policies. I feel I need to defend against all these ill-informed viewers that I will run into. I can see it now, anyone with a voice will opinionate this movie and it is the end all be all for them regarding politics. I hate getting into debates with people who are unqualified to talk this stuff. They are playing in the big leagues with minor league experience. Michael Moore knows this, sees this, and exploits this. He gets a rise out of it.

As for kyle...how do you expect people not to respond in a non-political sort of way. This is a very controversial topic! I did my best to graze in my opinion. I say, to all that read this...bring it! Let's hear your opinions, after all Kyle, that seems to be what you want in your own Michael Moore way.:D

God Bless this country, the United States of America, that allows me, and everyone in it, the freedoms to do what we want, when we want to do it. As part of it, we have to put up with all views on politics, religion, and the like. And each segment of controversey has fact as a foundation as to why their way is the right way. Shit, I'll shut up now....I need to stop grazing and drill down deeper. But if that were the case, this post would be longer than my dissertation.:D
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ah the hell with it... bring on the political banter.

After re-readinmg my post I do come across as being a Michael Moore supporter, and its not that I support all of his views or political ideals, I just like the fact that someone is actually doing something that the general public can appreciatte or understand. Whether his facts are true or not it gives people something to think about because honestly, the majority of people don't think, I know sitting at my dinner table at night Im scared to think that my dad has the ability to vote. Anyway, I'm trying my hardest to not get myself involved in politics, I leave in 2 months and after that politics will be one of the last things on my mind, but its hard to just sit back and not get involved....
 

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This thread would be more interesting if you two had already seen the movie, and were debating what was on screen..........hey, maybe you two could go together!:twofinger
 

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Kyle said:
Ah the hell with it... bring on the political banter.

After re-readinmg my post I do come across as being a Michael Moore supporter, and its not that I support all of his views or political ideals.
Anyway, I'm trying my hardest to not get myself involved in politics, but its hard to just sit back and not get involved....
Well that's just what I need, an invitation to brandish my political banter:twofinger .

Spicerish knew I probably couldn't resist but you stole all my steam when you reposted a caveat about your views on Michael Moore.
This movie is a far cry from falling in the genre of a documentry. He clearly has an agenda and he wouldn't let the truth get in the way of foisting that agenda upon the American public. His goal was to bash the Bush Administration and he has a venue to do that.
You're right though in that watching the movie could generate discussions, probably heated discussions between the two different point of views. Thank goodness this country allows everyone to have an opinion. Hopefully people will see through the BS of Mr. Moore
 

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Not to add to the debate... I like Michael Moore simply because he's brilliant at taking something to the extreme while using only facts. I don't agree with half the things he throws out there. Will it stop me from seeing his movie? Hell no. Know why? Because it's not going to effect me in any way in the way I think. But, for you guys and gals out there who DON'T like him.... here's a link. I plan on seeing this one also.

http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Well, I saw it.

I watched as objectively as possible, and it was clear that there was editing and you only saw what he wanted you to see. However, if even half of what was proclaimed was true, its still food for thought.

Funny too, I figured that I'd go today at noon so it wouldn't be crowded (I hate crowded movie theatres)... there were about 10 open seats which really shocked me, and a line waiting to get in as our showing ended and on top of that the theatre wasn't even advertising it.

Even if you don't care about the politics its a well put together flick, and a bit easier to watch, as Mr Moore only makes a screen appearance about 3 times. And I hope that "Michael Moore Hates America" comes out before I shove off to my island. The trailor didn't seem all that impressive but it'd be interesting to see what the other Mike turns up.
 

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Kyle said:
Well, I saw it.

I watched as objectively as possible, and it was clear that there was editing and you only saw what he wanted you to see. However, if even half of what was proclaimed was true, its still food for thought.

Funny too, I figured that I'd go today at noon so it wouldn't be crowded (I hate crowded movie theatres)... there were about 10 open seats which really shocked me, and a line waiting to get in as our showing ended and on top of that the theatre wasn't even advertising it.

Even if you don't care about the politics its a well put together flick, and a bit easier to watch, as Mr Moore only makes a screen appearance about 3 times. And I hope that "Michael Moore Hates America" comes out before I shove off to my island. The trailor didn't seem all that impressive but it'd be interesting to see what the other Mike turns up.
I am upset because the ONLY theatre down here in Albany GA is not showing it. It's a Carmike cinema. Like you Kyle, I am off to an island as well later this year. Only the island I am going to is Okinawa.... :( :( :(
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Man... I love islands, but I would have to agree with you on that one. I would have bootlegged it for ya today but the digital camcorder kicked the bucket this year while snowboarding.
 

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Kyle said:
However, I think it is important for everyone who considers themselves to be an "American" to see this film, and especially if you are an American with an opinion.
You are very right. This is only what you think. It's your opinion. Like the SpicerDude said, it won't make anyone more or less of an American if they see (or not) this movie. Frankly, this sounds very "chain-letterish". Personally, I don't take anyone seriously, who resorts to "guilt-tripping" others into getting them to do things. I find it very childish, but that's just one of my pet-peeves.


Kyle said:
To be a hipocrit... It is MY opinion that the majority of the American Public (including myself) is in the dark regarding 90% of "what goes on" with this government. I feel that anyone who has ever complained about the government should do more than complain, they should get informed.
I agree. I'm sure most people don't know what happens behind closed government doors. I feel that some things people should know, some things people shouldn't know, and some things people don't have a need to know. This does not mean the government has a right to keep things from the People, but why does the average American need to know when GWB is wiping his ass? Hell, if anyone knows even 50% of what happens in government, they should be in politics because politicians don't even know that much.

If people want to know more about how the government works, why it works, or like you said 'get informed', they don't have to go watch this movie. It's biased, no matter how unbiased it's claimed to be. Just go to your local college and take an American Government class. Now THAT will certainly open your eyes.

Don't get me wrong. The events of 9/11 are important to the American people. I have mourned the losses with the rest of the American people. This day and its events should not be forgotten, but it is an old wound. Why is the scab constantly being picked?
 

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The problem with this movie, in my op, is... Moore.

He's proven time and time again that he doesn't use facts-- he distorts them. He distorts them for his purposes.

If he's not using facts objectively and THEN come up with a conclusion then this movie is HARDLY a documentary. It is political satire, an op-ed, agenda-driven, call it what you like, but it is not a documentary.

Unfortunately, the argument about "if only half of what's in the movie is true..." Which parts are true? Which parts are false? Because we don't know making assumptions based on faulty foundations makes the whole argument and conclusions suspect.

As for me, I'll wait to borrow it from the library.
 

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slaintedan said:
Go see the film, then hit the "edit" or "delete" button on your post. :twofinger
:laughing:

I've heard/read enough about it since it's release to further confirm that it is indeed a turd. Maybe in a week or two when it's already out on video I'll check it out. Nah, still a waste of money. Ok, if they happen to show it on one of the very few channels I even bother turning the tv on for anymore, I'll still probably change it. I've read enough truthful anti-Bush articles. About as many anti-Kerry, anti-Clinton, anti-whomever happens to be the target of the day. I've also read glowing reviews of all of them. I don't need to watch the extremist conspiracy theory types to influence me. I wouldn't watch a publication put out by extreme right wing Christian conservatives for the same reason I won't watch Moore's extreme leftist crap. It is what it is, crap. :2cents:

Like I said, the man can have his opinions. It doesn't mean I need to listen to them though, especially when I know/suspect (in keeping with his past "documentaries") that many of them are false and/or taken out of context. It just doesn't interest me, plain and simple. And no, this doesn't mean I am blindly casting my vote for Bush. I honestly haven't decided who would do better for the country. Neither candidate represents me 100%, so I'll have to pick the lesser of two evils I guess. Maybe I'll pencil in Dan's name....:dunno: :D

The people who really scare me are the ones who will see this film and think that it is the absolute truth. Those people aren't worth even talking to and are simple sheep. Have fun on the baaaa-ndwagon. :2cents:
 

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I'm sick of hearing people discredit the information in this movie because they don't believe/like Michael Moore. You don't have to believe/like Michael Moore, I could give 2 shits about the guy, but when you attempt to vilify the prosecutor to defend the criminal you're doing everybody a disservice. When a reporter covers a story about a murder we don't make excuses for the murderer and attack the reporter, it makes no sense. Michael Moore did not create the footage of our "leaders," he didn't stage it, he collected it and packaged it for the general public to watch. You may not agree with the way he edited it or took things out of context, but the fact remains that the footage put into the movie was real. Real and disturbing.

I saw the film last night in NY city. Needless to say, it really hits home when you find out that the "President" was given a report before 9/11 that Bin Laden was planning to attack us and the "President" didn't read it. When you see actual video of the "President" sitting like an idiot for 10 minutes, listening to children read, after being told that the country was under attack. When you learn about all the business relationships his family has with the very countries who terrorize us. How he stole an election and the very organization that is FOR the people, the Congress, had NO support from the Senate when their constituants were illegally prevented from voting. I'm sorry to say it, but I'm ashamed to be represented by this man, I'm sorry to all the innocent people we've killed in the name of Oil, and I'm sorry that so many people in this country don't feel the way I do.

This unfortunate world we've allowed this man and his family to force upon us is what you should be attacking, not the messenger.
 

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Just remember that the People "basically" voted for GW because they no longer wanted a 420-friendly president who likes sucked dong.

I'm sure if Moore wanted to, be could make an identical film on each and every president (past and present) and all the candidates as well.

I'm not attacking Moore, or any president. I'm just saying that everything (and everyone) is biased, prone to perspective. Who knows if the footage is even in chronological order. :huh:

I think anyone who voted for GWB hasn't any right to complain about what he's done and/or doing.

I also think anyone who blindly votes Bush out doesn't have any right to complain, not if but when dirt is dug up on the next President. Who knows, GWB might look like a friggin' saint compared to the "next guy".

So who voted for Bush? Let's see a show of hands? :twofinger
 

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You're probably just not a patriot, Dan. "You're either for us or you're against us." Such a statement could only come from a true intellectual. One like GW.

I haven't seen Michael Moore's Reader's Digest compilation of Bush's statements but have seen and read Bush's statements first hand for several years now. I can well imagine that such a collection would be very disturbing. It was no fun getting it doled out in small weekly doses but arranged in order, all at once, I expect is very disturbing. Especially to those viewers who are really hearing him for the first time. It ain't all flag waving, folks.;)

My ankles weren't deformed at birth. That's the result of having such a death grip on them since Reagan/Gingrich.;)
 
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