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Ok long story short here.

I got pulled over and the cop said I was doing 52 in a 35. He was in motion coming from the other directions, plus there was a sign that prohibited me and him from seeing each other for the majority of the time. I was going around 40-45 but not 52. This cop would not showing me the radar lock and he said " when driving we do not have to lock it in, I don't have to have it locked in"

Well I never signed the ticket after arguing with him for 15 mintues about how he possibly was able to tag me. Can I get this thrown out of the court since he never was willing to show me the radar gun?

What do you think I should do? I have a very good argument but I dont want to be wrong. My options right now are:

1. argue, plea not gilty and hope it gets dropped.

2. Do differed ajudification.

3. Get an attorney.
 

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if he had a radar system, hes a traffic

cop, and these ass holes are supposidy trained to judge speed..so he can go to court and say he "seen" you speeding and the radart varified it..your fecked..cause as a dumb ass judge here in california once told me "police dont lie"!!

i would'nt get a lawyer, there no better than the jerk off that wrote you the ticket...

bite the bullit an pay OR somewhere on this site is a guy who list a site that tells you how to fight it your self..good luck dOOd..
 

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go to court, ask them to produce the actual gun, the maintenence logs, the tunning logs, the tuning forks, and the logbook, they will not want to do this so they will through it out of court.
 

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Try to find an attorney who does a lot of traffic court appearences. Shop around. If TX is like CA, there are too many attorneys, so you may find an aggressive attorney to help you out for a reasonable fee.

Pleading guilty is an option.

So is doing the trial yourself. You DO NOT have to testify at trial, you can just ask the cop a bunch of questions. The cop may not show for trial. The cop may come off as a jerk. The cop may die of clogged arteries due to too many donuts. The cop may be on vacation. If you think it will help, bring pictures of the sign in question. Anything can happen at a trial. Just dress nice, be respectful of the bailiff and judge. Present the facts logically and simply. Common sense is your best argument.

Don't miss your court date if you decide to fight. Be there early. The first appearence probably won't be the trial (call ahead to make sure), just where you plead not guilty and get a date for trial. Check out the exact courtroom where the trial will take place. Ask where it is. Appear early for trial.

How about traffic school?? Is that an option??

Let us know, either way, how it turns out.
 

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Wish I could help ya, but unfortunately I loaned out the best book I'd ever seen on fighting radar, and don't know to whom! I have one now that was written by an ex-NY state trooper, but it can't hold a light to the one I had written by a lawyer. Some things may or may not apply in this day and age (and in your state), but a few things that stuck:
1. If you're alone, be prepared for trouble!
2. If you have a passenger, tell 'em to take notes/remember what's said, etc
3. Get as much info as you can (officer's name, badge number, his supervisor's name, radar unit info (serial #, etc), yadda yadda yadda. This will later be used in court for defense, or just to confuse the issue and allow the system more opportunities to screw up!
4. Memorize this phrase (in case he balks at any of your requests):
"Are you refusing to supply me with requested information which could be used for my defense in a court of law?"

What's he gonna say? Is he gonna give you the info, or is he gonna refuse, which you can bring to the judge's attention (or is he gonna whap you on the head if nobody’s looking)!

If anybody out there knows 'bout this book, I'd be happy to know the name/author, etc. All I remember was the author was a lawyer in Washington, D.C. that specialized in traffic cases. I bought the book from Auto sumpin 'bout 20 to 25 years ago: it was a big mail order outfit that started off in slot cars and grew to include bodywork, etc for sports cars. The owner of the mail order outfit was Kowalski or sumpin' similar (was a bit of legend in sports car circles).

How's zat for narrowing it down! It's a shame we can't locate the book, as it was broken down into sections:
1. Passively avoiding radar
2. Actively avoiding radar (even told you what type of Dupont radar absorbing paint to use)!
3. What to do if you're caught

BTW, at the time this book was written, he claimed if you request to see the reading, the officer had to comply. He suggested that if you were the victim of a two-car trap, you stall and ask for as much information as possible, and as he was just about to write you the ticket, you then ask to see the reading (by then, his buddy up the road has probably reset the radar for the next victim). He also claimed it was standard procedure for departments to get a license from the FCC to operate X number of radar units (with serial #’s listed). Many departments misunderstood, thinking this license allowed them to operate any number of units, and when buying additional units, they did not bother to have them registered with the FCC. If you were caught with one of these unregistered units (based on the serial # info you requested at the original stop), supposedly you beat the ticket.
‘Course, this info was written a long time ago, laws/loopholes have probably been closed, and as stated, if you’re by yourself, ya might wanna think ‘bout how hard you wanna push when stopped. This fellow claimed this stuff applied in all states, but that would really surprise me in this day and age.

Anybody care to enlighten (laws or the book in question)?
 

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hey bro, the cops do NOT have to show you the radar gun. (at least in ky. they don't)
if you don't want to hire an atty., you can call the county atty. and discuss your ticket with him. or, you can go to the first trial date, arrive early, and ask to speak with the county atty. then.
just be very respectful and friendly. quickly state the facts why you weren't guilty, and why you need to keep the points off your license (insurance, job, or whatever). if he doesn't agree to something reasonable, you can just plead not guilty and get a lawyer.
btw, i just recently talked myself out of a 53 mph over, and drag racing. i ended up with traffic school and 199$ fine... no points;)
 

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R1forFUN said:
hey bro, the cops do NOT have to show you the radar gun. (at least in ky. they don't)
if you don't want to hire an atty., you can call the county atty. and discuss your ticket with him. or, you can go to the first trial date, arrive early, and ask to speak with the county atty. then.
just be very respectful and friendly. quickly state the facts why you weren't guilty, and why you need to keep the points off your license (insurance, job, or whatever). if he doesn't agree to something reasonable, you can just plead not guilty and get a lawyer.
btw, i just recently talked myself out of a 53 mph over, and drag racing. i ended up with traffic school and 199$ fine... no points;)
Good Job! It's the points that cost you big insurance $ in the long run.
 

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R1forFUN said:
hey bro, the cops do NOT have to show you the radar gun. (at least in ky. they don't)
Not disputing your claim, but just curious who told you that? Surely not a cop? :D
Iff'n he did refuse to show you the reading (even if he's not required to), wonder what would happen if you whipped out your memorized phrase for him? I'd think maybe a lawyer could have a good time with a cop that 'refused to supply you with information which could be used in your defense in a court of law'?

Sumpin' to think about (and research a bit more)?
 

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basicblur said:


but just curious who told you that? Surely not a cop? :D
I have a cop in my family and i asked him about the radar and he said at least in Il they are not required to show the radar gun cause they don't want to let you out of your vehicle for their and your protection. Tuning of the radar guns are not logged the officer checks the radar gun before and after each stop. The judge will ask the Officer if he did it and his word is good enough. If you say you were doing 45 in a 35mph zone the judge will tell you that regardless you are still guilty cause you were still speeding and just admitted it.:eek:
 

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While stationed in Virginia, I got lucky with a reckless (car) ticket. It was my second one in three years and after a weekend in jail for the first, I'm sure it wasn't going to be pretty.

Anyway, I called the court ahead of time to see about moving my court date to the left (I was getting underway and wouldn't be in port on the originally scheduled date) and they said if I was going to plead guilty, just come on in any day of the week.

So I showed up the next day, and the officer who pulled me over just happened to be there that day. Of course, when I came up on the docket, the officer had made zero preparations and could tell the judge nothing about me or my ticket. He hadn't even pulled my driving record. So the judge gave me a $60 fine and told me to slow down.

Still a fine, I know, but hey, it was better than the Norfolk City Jail, again.

I don't know if that would help in your case, but it's a suggestion. Good luck.
 

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Unfortunately, I live in one of the top 10 most "wealthy" counties in the U.S.....but I'm ghetto:D

Anyway, my last ticket when I was 16 (9 yrs ago in my '85 Olds 442) was dropped. Basically, I paid double the amount of the ticket and it was dropped from my record. No points. I think they do this because there are so may yuppies in BMW's speeding that the city figured they could make some $$ very easily. I mean, what's an extra $100 to someone who makes $100k /yr.

I think you were only allowed to use the 'pay double' thing twice in two years. I"m not sure if this option is still available though.

Check to see if something similar exists where you're at. It may cost you a chunk of $$ but it will save you in the long run.
 

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Well here is the real [email protected] first you already admitted you were speeding around 45mph...Even tho this isnt a drastic speed, its still exceeds the limit... Now there are two ways you can approach this...Contact the officer and see if he has or is willing to do a reduction to 5 over the limit,,,,,This would reduce your fine and there is no points for 5 over @ least in Pa...If so your stuk w/ a chyyty fine and no point, not to bad,,,,Or you may request a hearing...however find out what section the cop wrote you under...Speed timing devices require more so to speak...Police dont need a timing device to write you a ticket...Based on there professional experience so to speak they can, onn that,,,,But if they do use a device,,, then for court purposes they should prove such was calibrated, & should be certified in the same...Good luk,,From a previous post,, if u had a cbr 954 you could have out run him....lol
 

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Had a friend who got pulled (after large chase involving helicopter) on his VFR750 for a claimed 165.

They gave him a pretty good Rodney Kinging, and when everything had calmed down (a cop who knew him & his momma showed up), one of the officers told him they had clocked him at 165. He asked the officer if he could get that in writing. The officer asked "Why?", and my friend reponded "So when I sell it, I have written proof that it's the fastest stock VFR750 on the planet". It's a good thing that the officer he knew had showed up, or the Rodney Kinging probably would've recommenced. ;)
 

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Tamara said:
Had a friend who got pulled (after large chase involving helicopter) on his VFR750 for a claimed 165.

They gave him a pretty good Rodney Kinging, and when everything had calmed down (a cop who knew him & his momma showed up), one of the officers told him they had clocked him at 165. He asked the officer if he could get that in writing. The officer asked "Why?", and my friend reponded "So when I sell it, I have written proof that it's the fastest stock VFR750 on the planet". It's a good thing that the officer he knew had showed up, or the Rodney Kinging probably would've recommenced. ;)
"Can't we all get along?" apparently not.
 

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Since you have already admitted you were speeding, you may want to just pay the ticket. If you're determined to fight it, recreate the circumstances on video, go to court, and roll the dice.
The last time I went to court, the cop was more than an hour late, and he was not very forthcoming in response to my questions. His attitude made it very easy for the judge to find me not guilty.
 

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Radar...Part 1

Ok guys n' girls...the scoop on some aspects of speed detection radar is as follows (from a 16 year law enforcement officer with thousands of speeding tickets written/prosecuted and several radar user-certifications...)

Show the reading? No Way!!!

If you ARE shown a reading that could be evidence that the officer did not use the radar properly! Officers must develop a 'tracking history' (speed change over time observed) of the suspected violator (SV). The ONLY way to do so requires monitoring the indicated speed of the SV on the radar unit while visually assessing the SV's speed to be sure there is some correlation between what they are seeing on the radar and on the street.

Once a direct correlation is made between the radar indicated speed and SV's driving actions (i.e., does the radar speed drop if the SV is seen to hit their brakes?...or...does the radar lose lock as the SV passes out of the known pattern of the radar beam?), the officer has "probable cause to believe" (a key phrase) that the SV's vehicle was traveling the speed indicated on the radar device.

Once the officer has Probably Cause to make the arrest (a traffic stop IS an arrest...signing the ticket is the administrative equivalent of posting bail, not admiting guilt) the stop can be made and the ticket issued.

The officer can write the ticket for ANY speed that they witnessed on the radar unit that was above the legal speed for the road...OR ANY SPEED THAT CAN BE REASONABLY INFERRED FROM IT. The officer can't write you for 100 mph if the highest speed they saw was 95, but they CAN write you for 26 in a 25 with that very same 95 mph reading...and Yes, that is technically "speeding".

Part 2 to follow...
 

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Radar...Part 2

Arguing with the officer?

No, no, no, no!!! Although questioning is fine...as in politely asking if the office happened to see the car that was passing you right as you saw the officer pointing the radar unit at you (happened to me)...but arguning is OUT!

Two reasons...

First, most officers will immediately go on heightened alert when you get the LEAST bit argumentative. This could lead to a long stop and every once in a while you will get one of those "I am God..." officers (I even despise them...) that takes it as a personal affront and might get you more hassle...or worse.

Second, you will not be forgotten! The last thing you want to do is to be remembered...you just want to be one more faceless, nameless person the officer stopped that hour/day/week/month...because you can use that against them if you decide to go to court.

How? Well, remember...you are one of hundreds the officer has ticketed. What if he can't remember the color of your motorcycle? ...or what you were wearing? ...or if you had a passenger? ...or what direction you were traveling? or best of all, your "tracking history"? Maybe if they can't remember that, maybe they can't remember YOU and can't really testify to the particulars of why they stopped you.

...and if they can't remember...or you can call into question...the particulars of the "probable cause" for the stop...you SHOULD be found not guilty.

Part 3 to follow...
 

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After reading that! I think it would be a good idea to pay the ticket. I think points are even more costly. Good Luck!
 
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