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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Did a 315 mile day today...one of the newbie's crashed!!

What's up guys? About 24 of us got together today for the SSA's (Southern Sportbike Association) first ride of June and one of the newbie's trashed his bike.

Before the ride we told the new guys to just ride at your own pace and don't try to push it or keep up with the rest of, us but as you know, it doesn't always sink in. We were running the curves pretty hard and about 4 of us had separated ourselves from the rest of the group and had made it to one of our check points (or rest stops) when one of the guys came up to us and said there was a rider down about 7 miles back. We went back and he was fine but the bike (TL1000R) was trashed. The front end was ripped off the bike, dent in tank, tail section busted, exhaust on both sides were dented and scratched. After talking o the guy he admitted he was trying to catch up to us. I kinda felt bad for running to far ahead but here's the thing...

We had taken that same route earlier in the day at a slow (around 60mph) pace so that everyone could see the route and get a feel for what the curves were like. So, like I said I kinda feel guilty for running off and leaving some of the newbie's but at the same time they knew what they were getting into before we went through it a second time...so why do I still feel guilty? It's not my fault the guy wrecked, right?
 

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No, not your fault at all--Don't even worry about it! I am somewhat new to Sport bike riding myself. But having years of Motocross experience behind me, I think I know "when to say when." If you've had the motocross experience of "First turn" who's going down first? then, well give it up and go home, don't try to be a hero. If you have the ability, stay with it. I don't know what else to say, but when I rode with the "fast guys" last weekend, I took the right hander home--the brothers were just too fast for my old ass! Tom
 

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It is no one's fault; however, I do believe that when you are in a group or club the leader has to be behind everyone else who is less experienced or skill so later on he/she can tell him/her what he/she is doing wrong. I think what you guys did at first going slow was the right thing, but the second part of going faster than other was wrong. If you know that newbies can't get to go slow why go faster when you already know that he/she can get in trouble. If you feel like going fast, then have two groups one experienced and beginning. Whoever is the leader has to state how fast everyone has to go.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Riding order.

Yeah, I forgot to mention how its set up. We select 4 "Road Bosses" for every ride...2 up front and 2 in back. The newbies always ride in the back of the group and are strongly encourage to ride at their own pace and not try to be competitive. Most of us ride at about 80% but for some the newer guys that would be like 110% if they were trying to keep up with us so we discourage the newer guys from trying to keep up with the front pack. Just thought I'd let you know that :cool:
 

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Even then, you guys need someone with experience, skills, and good judgement behind the new guys. If you do not have someone behind them, how are you going to know and tell them what are they doing wrong, and how they can get better?
 

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quote

< HUS - Yeah, I forgot to mention how its set up. We select 4 "Road Bosses" for every ride...2 up front and 2 in back. The newbies always ride in the back of the group >

<HeckLer1979 - Even then, you guys need someone with experience, skills, and good judgement behind the new guys. >

Maybe you're really into "Heckling" or it's just me but . . . i think the "2 in back" were experienced riders at the very back, right behind the newbies.

Oh, btw, HUS - those are excellent riding rules your group has. Just think . . . if you didn't run the route earlier, or didn't give the "newbie" speech at the beginning of the day, you could have backtracked 7 miles to find a mess of twisted newbie all over a mountain, or off the side of a cliff.
 

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Yeah I am not sure what the problem is here either. That sounds like a great game plan. It's not your job to babysit people and make sure that they get through every turn okay. That is why we have free will. The two riders in back is a great idea, not to mention the slow run through it first round. Sounds like you are a pretty responsible group that takes your ride seriously. I would love to ride with a bunch of people in that scenario.

bRad
 

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Hmmm seems I can't read. Anyway, well is not ur fault so don't worry about it.
 

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Riding Rules

Sounds like you guys have a pretty good set-up. If someone is going to push too hard, no one behind will be able to stop them. The only way to slow someone down is to be in front of them, turn down the speed some, and hope they don't nail you from the rear. Doesn't sound like a job I'd want.

The best way to teach newbies from my experience is to give some one on one to the new guy and MAKE him follow you and learn from the better rider.

Another suggestion for your club, since it sounds pretty organized, is to have some bench learning sessions at your rest points with the newbies. Tell them what they are doing wrong.

Keep the rubber side down guys...
 

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No I don't think it was your fault, after all we are free to make our own choices aren't we??
Perhaps two groups, both with experienced riders at the front and rear of both.
The pre-ride is always a good idea.
Helmet radios are an even better item to have in this circumstance. Again,the experienced riders at the front and rear should have the radios.
Remember to tell'em to "Ride the Pace!":):)

Jim
 

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The problem with newbies is that sometimes they don't know when they are pushing their limits. They try to carry more speed into a corner than they are prepared to deal with, then panic and quit riding and run off the road or nail the rear brake. Maybe you could try putting one of the rear guys in front of the newbies to kind of control their pace until they get to the point you can turn them loose. Keep the other one at the back. One thing you have to be especially careful about with newbies is the "bungee effect". They will invariably run up into triple digits trying to catch the pack after a stop sign or red light or whatever, especially in big groups like yours.
The way I see it, if you did a pace run on the road first, then warned him about trying to "keep up", then it ain't your fault. Some people just have to learn the hard way.
 

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No Fault...

HUS,

I wouldn't feel bad at all. I had a similar incident earlier this year. We were on a ride-out from a local bike shop, and there were about 35 riders headed for the mountains. It was a cluster phuck from the beginning. By the time we had gone 10 miles, there were bikes spread out over a 5 mile stretch. We all regrouped before heading into the twisties. I offered to take the rear for the first 20 mile leg. About 10 miles into the ride, I was behind a guy on an ST2 that was on a "demo ride." As we went into tight left turn, he became nervous and put his left foot on the ground!!! He wobbled a few times, regained control, and continued. After watching this, I sped in front of him and gave him signals and was screaming madly (like he could hear me!) to SLOW DOWN! He ignored me and passed me on the outside! I just said to myself, "phuk this, I'm outa' here." So I passed him and headed on up the mountain. When I got to the first stop, I sat there for about 15 mins when another rider pulled in and said, "the guy on the ST2 went off the road." Oh, big surprise there! He totaled the ST2 but was o.k., just a few scrapes.

Here's the kicker: They put him on ANOTHER BIKE!:eek:
Five miles later, he went off-roading again!!!:eek: :eek:
This time, he broke his arm and dislocated his shoulder. Needless to say, his day was over, and it was pretty shitty for many others. I had fun in spite of it all.

I didn't feel bad whatsoever. Tough shit for him.:)
 

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I wasn't going to say anything so as to not to sound "preachy" but I think if a rider dumps it trying to keep up with pack (let's face it, that's human nature no matter what level of experience a rider has - no one wants to be an anchor) then the leaders do bear some responsibility. Note "some responsibility." Clearly each rider is responsible for his own safety, but I feel the experienced leaders should be taking into account the overall riding level of the group, and if they choose to include less experienced riders then they should account for that in the pace they set.
 

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I agree, screw em! If they are in front of you all you can do is watch. If they are behind you, some will try to play catch up all day. Best to just check out from a newbie who won't listen, that way you don't get involved in their crash.
That is why you should have a pre-ride get together. If they don't listen, their fault. Can't be expected to babysit everyone all the time!
 

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Bonk! said:
I wasn't going to say anything so as to not to sound "preachy" but I think if a rider dumps it trying to keep up with pack (let's face it, that's human nature no matter what level of experience a rider has - no one wants to be an anchor) then the leaders do bear some responsibility. Note "some responsibility." Clearly each rider is responsible for his own safety, but I feel the experienced leaders should be taking into account the overall riding level of the group, and if they choose to include less experienced riders then they should account for that in the pace they set.
This is always a problem when putting group rides together. In the final analysis, each rider is responsible for himself, but I do agree with your statement and I do feel some responsibility if I'm the ride leader or even just one of the participants. You can usually tell when someone's trouble and I can't be so cold as to ignore that. When I have sensed that, I've usually been right and they have crashed by the end of the day. When you go on larger group rides, you have to resign yourself to taking it easier and enjoy the commeraderie. If you can't do that, then don't go on the ride.
 

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What did you expect with 24 bikes? If I showed up at a ride and there were 24 bikes there I would just leave . That many riders your just asking for trouble.
 

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TankSlapper said:
What did you expect with 24 bikes? If I showed up at a ride and there were 24 bikes there I would just leave . That many riders your just asking for trouble.
There's some truth to that.
 
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