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Discussion Starter #1
New thread started so as not to venture too far off topic in the wrong section. :laughing:


So how many cases have there been that cheetas flip out and maul their owners? You can't change nature, but you can suppress it.
I just went back and re-read your question. The answer is still none. You have to remember... we are not natural prey for cheetahs or cougars, so if/when wild ones attack, it is usually because they are threatened by our presence in one way or another. Cats that were raised around people will act differently around people. That is the nature of all creatures, so you aren't really suppressing anything. They have just had the chance to be around people, so they act different around them.

For that matter... wild cheetahs really won't attack, either. Case in point...

(Nevermind the stupid girl and her asinine comments. Just ignorance showing.)

Link- Video


Of course, they do have ways of getting even for you staring at them all the time. :laughing:

Link - Video



I worked on a guys house who had a pet cougar in a 8x8 pen. All it did was pace back and forth and look at me like I was a pork chop. Those pics are pretty cool ZX6...I had no idea they could be treated like house cats...
Welllllllll.... Not house cats, no. They are much smarter than house cats, and can be equally as much more mischievous. They also cannot simply be ignored like house cats. They quite literally HAVE to be the center of attention. But, anyone who has one... thats how they want it anyway. :)

If they are pacing back and fourth, you aren't dinner. Like every other cat, they crouch and flatten their ears before attacking, even in play. You know what is coming before it happens... provided you don't let your guard down. They like to play, so you'll probably get pounced on quite a bit. No big deal, though.

Provided you aren't bent over and have your concentration elsewhere like this... (Watch the cat in the middle.)

You might just want to right-click "save as" for these remaining videos. My server is pretty slow.


Video

:laughing:You can see how big of a deal it is, though. I need to actually grab clips from the dvd so you can hear him laughing his ass off. It makes it a lot funnier.

(Sorry for the crap quality... I just used my phone camcorder to film a DVD I have. It was quick.)

Usually, when they pounce on you during play, it looks more like this...

Video

Or this...

Video

And one last video... same guy. Playing with his "natural born killing machines". :laughing: (you know Im only picking tippy. )

Video


Truth be told, I have no idea where to start looking, and the idea seems a little out of my reach right now.
You live in Ohio. Ironically... at a livestock auction is where you can find them. The cougar I posted all of the pics of in the other thread is owned by a guy I know from Ohio, and he bought his at one of those auctions. The idea is a bit out of reach to most, so don't feel bad. They require nearly 100% of your time, and you have to have a fairly decent disposable income, too. Cages tend to eat up a lot of money. Vet bills are also a consideration. Not to mention the fact that a cougar eats 3% of its body weight in meat every day. That means 200lb cougars will eat 6lbs of meat daily.




If you guys are really interested, I can do a better job with the videos. I can also answer pretty near any question you want to throw my way.

Just seems like there was a lot of interest... so I figured this deserved its own thread.
 

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Hmm, that's funny my brother-in-law knows a lot of the goings-on regarding auctions around here (especially if it's cattle) but I might have him keep his ear to the ground.

So are they ok in a cage for an 8-hour work day?
 

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There was a highly publicized case in russia when I was little. A famous trainer lived with three large cats, and by large I mean much larger than a cougar (can't remember if they were tiger or what not, I was just a kid back then). Anyways, they lived for years around his family, played with his kids, and everything was great untill the guy dies of natural causes and the cats kill his entire family. Something about dominance.
 

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I was just thinking about the Tiger that attacked Roy of Seigfried and Roy during one of their shows. They pretty much raised all of their tigers and trained them, so I guess you can't assume that their nature is ever totally gone.

I know Tigers and Cougars are different animals with different tendancies, but it's one of those things that makes you wonder.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
So are they ok in a cage for an 8-hour work day?
When they are older, sure. When they are cubs, hell no. When they are little, they require 24 hour attention.



There was a highly publicized case in russia when I was little. A famous trainer lived with three large cats, and by large I mean much larger than a cougar (can't remember if they were tiger or what not, I was just a kid back then). Anyways, they lived for years around his family, played with his kids, and everything was great untill the guy dies of natural causes and the cats kill his entire family. Something about dominance.
Those were Tigers. Tigers are VERY temperamental. I remember hearing that story not that long ago, actually. It wasn't a dominance thing, from what I was told. Cats will bond very strongly to whoever raised them. This guy raised them from cubs, and his family was never around them when he was not. His disappearance upset what they were used to.



I was just thinking about the Tiger that attacked Roy of Seigfried and Roy during one of their shows. They pretty much raised all of their tigers and trained them, so I guess you can't assume that their nature is ever totally gone.

I know Tigers and Cougars are different animals with different tendancies, but it's one of those things that makes you wonder.

He was not attacked. He collapsed during a show, and one of the tigers pounced on him thinking he was playing. One of the tigers claws cut his side when the tiger landed. There was nothing more to it. The media and their ignorant scare tactics are the ones who started referring to it as an "Attack". That tiger weighed 430 lbs. If it had attacked it would have gone for his head (Tigers attack their prey by biting at the throat), and he would have been dead. You would think people would figure this out instead of listening to the media... the guy even went on TV and explained what had happened in great detail. The very next day after that incident, he was back in the cage with the tigers. Including that one that "Attacked" him.

And no... I already explained... you aren't changing their "Nature". Cats are cats. They always will be.

Tigers and cougars have very different personalities, though. Most people lump big cats in the same category as all other large cats. Cougars and Tigers are more than one family apart, though. Tigers are part of the Panthera family, which includes (from largest to smallest) Lions, Tigers, Jaguars, and Leopards. The Cougar is in the Puma family, which consists of only 2 cats... the Cougar and the Jaguarundi. The Jaguarundi is much smaller, at an average weight of 13 lbs.

The Cougar and Cheetah are the two most closely related, despite being classed as a different family. Both of these cats are in the Felidae family, though. This family consists of all smaller cats, including house cats. Cougars are the largest of these cats.

Here is another random interesting fact. Scientists believe that Cougars and Cheetahs are both decedents from the same cat... the North American Cheetah. The split occurred when part of the group migrated back to Africa.

In the wild, Cougars and Jaguars have completely different take-down techniques from any other cat. Nearly all other cats will bite at the neck of their prey and choke them.

Cougars bite the base of the neck in the back, severing the spine instantaneously.

Jaguars have much larger and stronger teeth, developed specifically so they can bite straight down through the skull of their prey and directly into the brain.

I have all kinds of small facts like that tucked away from countless hours of discovery/animal planet/etc. :dunno:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
a couple more facts...


1) Cougars will not actively hunt people as a food source, such as african lions and leopards have done in the past. Cougars do not like salty foods, and humans are the only animal that has natural salt in their blood. Cougars will only kill humans in the wild if they feel threatened to the point where they no longer feel warning signs such as hissing and spitting will ward off the "attack".

While african lions are far more infamous for eating people (Such as the Tsavo Maneaters), in a comparison of one single cat vs another, it was a leopard who was responsible for far more deaths than any single lion. This one leopard killed over 400 men after being injured by a poacher. (They only turn to humans as food when they are no longer able to hunt their normal prey.)

In the wild, even Leopards are normally not a threat.

Check out this picture - Just an example of how close you can get to them in the wild.
 

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Not trying to stir the pot, but this page seems to somewhat contradict some of what you've said.

BTW, sorry for not carring enough about a tiger pouncing on a las vegas performer to actually research it. It just popped into my head.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Is that you in that pic?

Of course it is. :)

I have family in upstate NY, and there was a cat rescue center pretty close by. One summer when we were out there for the whole summer, I Volunteered. I was only 12, and big cats/small children don't mix, but they let me help out with bottle feeding and taking care of the cubs. It was an awesome summer, and I learned a lot.


Not trying to stir the pot, but this page seems to somewhat contradict some of what you've said.

BTW, sorry for not carring enough about a tiger pouncing on a las vegas performer to actually research it. It just popped into my head.
That doesn't contradict one single thing I have said. First, they were wild.

Second... Put yourself in their place.

You are a mountain lion and you are wandering around in the woods.. You hear a small click, so you turn around to check it out. You see a figure that stands at least 6' 5", and is moving right straight for you at 20+ MPH. He is closing fast, too... You are about to be attacked!

Do you really think mountain lions can distinguish that story from what we see when we think of mountain bikers being attacked in CA? In their eyes, they are being attacked, and respond accordingly.
 

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Oh yeah, one other thing to add.

They say that, in the wild, a female cougar is NEVER without cubs. Hence the attacks to defend young.

I did another quick scan of that and a lot of those are talking about bites to the face and arms... remember... Cougars take down prey by biting the base of the neck. If the bites are not to the base of the neck in the back, then the Cougar is not intending to kill, and the attack was caused by something. :thumbs2:
 

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Ok, you win. Cougars are nice loveable animals, and there's no need to let several dozen attacks cast a negative light on them :twofinger

The reason I asked about the pic is that it bears a scary resemblance to one of my childhood pics, except I was holding a dog. Other than that, I'm starting to wonder if I might have had a brother that got shipped north...
 

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Ok, you win. Cougars are nice loveable animals, and there's no need to let several dozen attacks cast a negative light on them :twofinger
haha. My point was actually much more simple than that. Actually I had two points I've been trying to make.

1) Wild animals are not the same as animals that have been raised by people. Sure, there is always risk involved in owning animals. Hell, even the ferret I used to have has bitten my feet more than once. To think that absolutely nothing bad could ever happen is unrealistic. However, (and on to my second point), it is all in what we are used to and what we are being fed for stories. Dogs hold a VERY high percentage when it comes to pets turning on their owners, yet owning a dog does not bother most people. Why? Several reasons. 1. The risks outweigh the rewards. 2. we are used to them. 3. we are knowledgeable about them, and understand their behavior. 4. stories of dog attacks are often played down.

In contrast to that, large cats attacking people (such as siegfried and roy) are hyped up in a way as to instill fear in anyone who reads about it. Large cats are not commonly known, and people do not take the time to learn about them. Not many people (in comparison to dogs and house cats) have them. They change your life... literally. Small things you don't even think about, such as weekend trips away. How many people would cat sit for you? Laws prohibit you taking them across state lines. Unless you have an exhibition permit, they can't really be taken anywhere, even even with the permit, they can NOT be allowed any physical contact with other people. Walking them down the road is out... If something caught the eye of your 200+lb cat, you would be dragged along for the ride. In contrast to dogs, cats have a much higher ratio of muscle to body weight. This goes for any cat. Some stories, while funny, are sobering. I remember this story of one woman who owned a cougar. She used to walk him on a leash, but she didn't want the leash slipping out of her hands, so she would tie it to her waist. One day, the cougar decided to give chase to a squirrel, which ran up a tree. The cougar did, too. Here is this 95 lb woman, dangling from a tree about 20' up by the leash she had tied to her waist. :laughing: These are the types of things you have to think about.

But just like dogs... if you have the time and patience, the rewards FAR outweigh the risks and sacrifices.


The reason I asked about the pic is that it bears a scary resemblance to one of my childhood pics, except I was holding a dog. Other than that, I'm starting to wonder if I might have had a brother that got shipped north...
I accept your claim for brother. :D



Here is one of my personal stories. I cannot begin to describe how scared I was at the time, but looking back at it now, it doesn't bother me so much.


When I still lived in VT, I used to ride 4 wheelers every chance I could get. Any and all dirt roads down there are open to off road vehicles, and I happened to live up in the middle of nowhere.

One night my father and I were out riding around. We had been up at a leanto that was about 20 miles from my house, and about 5 miles from the nearest summer camp. There was a short string of summer camps all on that same section of road, and then it went back to nothing for about 10 more miles. None of the summer camps ever had anyone in them more than a couple of weekends during the summer.

We were riding back down out. We were passing the first camp in the line when glowing eyes caught my attention. I looked up and saw yellow eyes on the deck of the cabin. I gave little thought to it, since it looked like maybe a house cat was sitting on the window sill. it was dark, though, so I couldn't see much.

About a mile down the road, we stopped for a brake at a fork in the road. The road to the left went off in nearly a straight line from the road we were on, and the road to the right doubled back parallel to our road for a short distance. I mentioned seeing the eyes in the window, and how weird it was that they had left their cat behind when they are almost never there. Dad chuckled and looked at me... then he realized I was serious. "Those eyes weren't in the camp." I asked him if he thought it could have been a Cougar. I no more than got the words out of my mouth when we heard a big crash behind us. I turned just in time to see (and it was in an opening with moonlight at this point) a cougar bound over a downed log next to the brook that ran up between the two roads. I looked back at dad, who looked panicked as well. Without saying a word, we both jumped on our quads and turned right. (This was the direction of our house).

We had gotten no more than about 30' up the road when I looked down to my right and saw the cougar running up the bank beside me. He came up into the road about 10' behind my quad and chased us about 1/8th of a mile up the road. I don't know what I was thinking at the time in my decision to go that way. I had overlooked the fact that he would cross the brook and go up the bank and not run to the intersection first. :laughing:

At the time, I knew nothing about them, and assumed (Like most people) that I was almost dinner. Looking back at it, though, I can break down every aspect of what happened and completely understand. 2 fast moving objects passed by a young cougar (2 years or less, and they are VERY playful), who had never seen anything like it before. We weren't prey, but he was curious. He followed us down the road to see what we were. He obviously wasn't getting ready to attack... he was VERY noisy. When he got close enough to investigate, we took off running again. Any cat will chase something that runs from them... it is their nature. If you've ever been around a house cat, you know that.

Anyway.. I realize now that it was pure curiosity and playfulness that lead to the incident. At the time, I was horrified, though.


We have a female cougar that has taken up residence in my neck of the woods where I live now. I've gotten a VERY good look at her on a few different occasions now, and she is absolutely beautiful. Knowing what I do now, her presence does not bother me. I still go out walking every single night. Cougars are lone animals. They try to avoid any contact whenever they can, so if they know you are around, they make sure they are out of sight. That is why seeing one in the wild is nearly impossible, and so infrequent. It is also the reason we have Cougars in the northeast region, and nearly everyone has seen at least one at one point or another, but there is still no evidence on state records of them. No photos, no nothing. Even fish and wildlife knows they exist in Maine, and they are trying very hard to get hard evidence of it, but currently, Eastern Cougars are listed as extinct in New England as of 1954. It's all about what you can prove, you know.
 

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I get the feeling you are pretty well-versed as cougars go. The only thing that is disconcerting (not really for me; as I said before, I would love to have a cougar, but don't have the time or space to devote to one) is that if a normal pet dog attacks, it isn't likely to kill you. I've been attacked by everything from a rat terrier to a german shepherd, and have little more than a couple small scars to show. If a cat the size of a cougar "decides to attack" a person would hardly stand a chance. As you mentioned, they have more strength, and are much quicker and deliberate in their actions.

That being said, if I ever decide to own a cat, you can rest assured it will be big enough to take any dog in the neighborhood.

ZX6R1033 said:
I accept your claim for brother.
Seriously, next time I'm at my parents' house I'm gonna find that picture. And maybe look around for adoption papers.
 

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The only thing that is disconcerting is that if a normal pet dog attacks, it isn't likely to kill you. If a cat the size of a cougar "decides to attack" a person would hardly stand a chance.
Oh yeah? Watch the video zxrider posted a link to. That is a Leopard attack, and leopards are substantially larger than a cougar. That one wasn't even a pet. ;)



If an animal attacks in defense, it will stop attacking when it feels safe again. When an animal attacks after being provoked, who knows, but there is still a chance of surviving. Just because a cougar "Decides to attack" does not mean you don't stand a chance. It just means you will definitely end up bruised. No different than a dog. They are just faster.



Seriously, next time I'm at my parents' house I'm gonna find that picture. And maybe look around for adoption papers.
haha, I would love to see the picture! I'm not adopted, though.

You should check over my myspace page some time... I have a ton of pics up that I am assuming you haven't seen yet. ;)
 

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Oh yeah? Watch the video zxrider posted a link to. That is a Leopard attack, and leopards are substantially larger than a cougar. That one wasn't even a pet. ;)
Well it wasn't exactly on level ground. It had to jump up and through a window without much solid footing. Had the door been hanging open, I doubt the guy would have been so lucky

If an animal attacks in defense, it will stop attacking when it feels safe again.
I.e. when you are dead

You should check over my myspace page some time... I have a ton of pics up that I am assuming you haven't seen yet. ;)
I looked through a few of them, but some were taking forever to load. Probably cause of that virus I was uploading to you. BTW, how safe is it to take a pic of yourself while riding? :squid::twofinger
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Well it wasn't exactly on level ground. It had to jump up and through a window without much solid footing. Had the door been hanging open, I doubt the guy would have been so lucky
The cameraman was standing outside of the vehicle. :)


Cats are not bothered by having to climb or anything, ESPECIALLY Leopards. You have to remember, these are the cats that will kill a 200 lb animal, then drag it up into the tree so the lions cannot get it. A door isn't going to slow him down from doing what he wants to do. Not even a little bit.

Notice the "lunch" on the other side of the tree?




I.e. when you are dead
Depends on how it plays out. Just like any other animal. Sometimes that is how it works. Usually, the victims die from their injuries, though. The attack was over before they died. But there again... dogs can/will do the same thing.



BTW, how safe is it to take a pic of yourself while riding? :squid::twofinger
ummm... I don't know what you are talking about. :laughing:

If it makes you feel any better, it wasn't a still photo. (hence the poor picture quality). It is a screen shot from a video. I have quite a few video cameras, and two of them are tiny. One almost always gets mounted to my tank mount when I go riding, and the other occasionally gets mounted to my left clipon. The screenshot was taken from the latter. ;)


I looked through a few of them, but some were taking forever to load. Probably cause of that virus I was uploading to you.
Oh, so YOU are the one that was screwing up myspace yesterday!! lol. Every time I tried to send someone a message, it kicked me over to myspace mobile. I was pounding my head on the desk. :twofinger
 

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If it makes you feel any better, it wasn't a still photo. (hence the poor picture quality). It is a screen shot from a video. I have quite a few video cameras, and two of them are tiny. One almost always gets mounted to my tank mount when I go riding, and the other occasionally gets mounted to my left clipon. The screenshot was taken from the latter. ;)
What do I care, I'm just a recently adopted e-brother. But what kind of an example are you setting for everyone else?

Oh, so YOU are the one that was screwing up myspace yesterday!! lol. Every time I tried to send someone a message, it kicked me over to myspace mobile. I was pounding my head on the desk. :twofinger


 
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