Sportbike World banner
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been reading alot about what you guys have to say on these boards and it sounds like you know what you are talking about, so here is one for you.

I have been riding sport bikes for many years now, and at the beginning of this year I got a 95 zx9r (my first big bike). I am pretty sure that it could do a good wheelie, but I don't really like the idea of using the clutch to do so( l like the idea of holding on to both grips). So here is the question. A friend of mine told me that if you drop the front sprocket down one tooth that you would be able to do a wheelie much easier without the clutch, and if it would be easier what would that do to your top speed and your rpms. I am sure that you guys know more than I do so thanks for you help.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,294 Posts
Yes it will help quite a bit. Instead of going down teeth on the front, go up 2 or 3 teeth in the rear. This topic has also been covered a few times before so do a search in this forum.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,511 Posts
Yup, better to go up in the rear, but keep in mind that you MIGHT or not need to change or add extra links to the chain. Also, rear sprockets are more expensive than front sprockets.

Just FYI.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
301 Posts
Troyzx9r

The best route is indeed to go larger on the rear and leave the front as is. The problem with going smaller on the front sprocket is that it makes the chain drag over the front of the swing arm. This is already a problem with the ZX-9; so going up on the rear will actually reduce the effects. I have repaired a number of bikes where the drive chains have cut all the way through the rubber shield and proceeded to cut into the swingarm.

I'm always a little amused at all the guys trying to reduce the wear on their front tires by riding on only the rear. This greatly hastens the destruction of rod bearings and everything else in the drive train. It is also amusing to hear some guy claim that these bikes are 'designed' to do wheelies of stopies or whatever. It ain't so. Most of the examples I see are the ones that succeed in destroying their bikes in just a few months. I'll be rebuilding a number of them this winter.

If you can lift the front wheel with power alone, the damage should be minimal, as long as you don’t flip it over in the process, slam is down when panicking a bit, run the oil out of the oil pick-up, run off the road, or just making this a hobby, etc. I don’t recommend driving your car or truck on only two wheels either, for the very same reasons. Why do I object to the nonsense? Because I can hardly find time to do anything else these days. I much prefer doing creative work, engine building, customizing, and polishing, not rebuilding grenaded engines. Why spend thousands of dollars just to get back to where you started.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
I dont know about the placement of your oil pick up..but a common practice is to over fill about a 1/2 qt.
Try to use 2 fingers on the clutch to bring it up..as stated, it should have no prob comin up on power.
3 up in the rear will help though.
Dont do wheelies unless you learn to cover the rear brake!
-Be safe-
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
During nice long wheelies your oil pickups may run dry. Which is a bad thing. This is why he said overfill it a little. As long as you're not going crazy with the oil filling nothing bad will happen. You might lose a little power due to the crank dragging through the oil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
127 Posts
hey duessel, Can u get that f4 up easily without using the clutch? My 99 f4 i can barely get em up in 1st without using the clutch. Obviously its my lack of skillz and practice but i was just wonderin how easy u can wheelie your f4. Also, when you do power wheelie wut rpm are u usually at? I usually start at 8grand but by the time its up (in first) its near redlined already:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,897 Posts
cbr4rusty said:
Obviously its my lack of skillz and practice but i was just wonderin how easy u can wheelie your f4.
I can do stand ups in 3rd gear(no clutch) before I changed the sprocket. I went 1 tooth down in front for now, and makes it even easier. Just have to know your bike and know where the power band is at. Play with. Don't be scared of it. What is the worst that could happen, wreck:D Make it do what you want it to do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
DaveL said:
Troyzx9r

The problem with going smaller on the front sprocket is that it makes the chain drag over the front of the swing arm. This is already a problem with the ZX-9; so going up on the rear will actually reduce the effects. I have repaired a number of bikes where the drive chains have cut all the way through the rubber shield and proceeded to cut into the swingarm.


.
Don't take this the wrong way, but in a stock set up(mine any way) the drive chain is designed to "drag" over the protective shield, which, by the way is definetly not made of rubber(on any bike!) if it were, it would wear out just going around the block.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
301 Posts
Sbninja,

I think you're wrong on all counts. First, I can see no good reason to deliberately 'design' the chain to drag over the top of the swingarm. This wastes power and makes proper chain adjustment more difficult. For example, on bikes where the swingarm does interfere, the chain can be adjusted to give the perfect amount of slack, but with the rider on board, the chain will now be rigid enough to straighten nails. This is not a good design. I can name a number of bikes with serious design flaws, but these things are still flaws, they weren't deliberately designed that way. In other words these are design goofs, mistakes, screw-ups, whatever you want to call them.

Now lets take you're next observation. We tend to think of rubber in terms of tire compounds, but actually rubber can be in an extremely wide variety of hardness’s and chemical blends. This may be before your time, but for years, in the 1940 and 50s telephones were extremely heavy and solid things. Everyone always found it hard to believe that they were actually made of rubber. You could easily drive a nail with one and hardly make a scratch on it. The chain certainly isn't made of any form of metal and I seriously doubt it's any form of plastic. Rubber is a safe bet. And I have seen many of them worn clear through with the chain cutting its way into the aluminum swingarm. This is all I’m trying to describe here and give warning about going down on the front sprocket size aggravating the above problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
127 Posts
DaveL said:
Sbninja,

I think you're wrong on all counts. First, I can see no good reason to deliberately 'design' the chain to drag over the top of the swingarm. This wastes power and makes proper chain adjustment more difficult.
When i bought my 2000 xr200 they told me the chain was adjusted to touch the sheild when stopped:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
301 Posts
cbr4rusty,

I'd say that your were correctly informed, however, touching the swingarm guide when stopped is very different from dragging over the guide while under load. If the slack is on the top portion of the chain it can easily rest on the guide. No static chain guide will be long for this world if the chain drags along the tension side (top). Most bikes don't have this problem at all, but like I said some do have a serious problem with this. Some of us only add to the problem by changing suspension components and sprockets sizes and completely ignore the chain giude situation. This is the only reason I brought this up. This is just another one of this areas where many guys create problems for themselves. A little knowledge can go a long way to prevent these problems.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
127 Posts
DaveL said:
cbr4rusty,

I'd say that your were correctly informed, however, touching the swingarm guide when stopped is very different from dragging over the guide while under load. If the slack is on the top portion of the chain it can easily rest on the guide. No static chain guide will be long for this world if the chain drags along the tension side (top). Most bikes don't have this problem at all, but like I said some do have a serious problem with this. Some of us only add to the problem by changing suspension components and sprockets sizes and completely ignore the chain giude situation. This is the only reason I brought this up. This is just another one of this areas where many guys create problems for themselves. A little knowledge can go a long way to prevent these problems.
Gotcha:)

So say i want to change my sprockets and the front one is cheaper, can i go 1 down (or wutever) on the front and just place the wheel back further when u tighten it? Will this eliminate the problem or should i just spend more for a rear one and stop being difficult:confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
DaveL said:
Sbninja,

I think you're wrong on all counts. First, I can see no good reason to deliberately 'design' the chain to drag over the top of the swingarm. This wastes power and makes proper chain adjustment more difficult. For example, on bikes where the swingarm does interfere, the chain can be adjusted to give the perfect amount of slack, but with the rider on board, the chain will now be rigid enough to straighten nails. This is not a good design. I can name a number of bikes with serious design flaws, but these things are still flaws, they weren't deliberately designed that way. In other words these are design goofs, mistakes, screw-ups, whatever you want to call them.

Now lets take you're next observation. We tend to think of rubber in terms of tire compounds, but actually rubber can be in an extremely wide variety of hardness’s and chemical blends. This may be before your time, but for years, in the 1940 and 50s telephones were extremely heavy and solid things. Everyone always found it hard to believe that they were actually made of rubber. You could easily drive a nail with one and hardly make a scratch on it. The chain certainly isn't made of any form of metal and I seriously doubt it's any form of plastic. Rubber is a safe bet. And I have seen many of them worn clear through with the chain cutting its way into the aluminum swingarm. This is all I’m trying to describe here and give warning about going down on the front sprocket size aggravating the above problem.
OK,Lets clear up a couple of things. First of all DaveL, just because you might be a little older dosn't mean you know what you are talking about!:rolleyes: rubber made telephones manufactured in the 1940's and 1950's has nothing to do with the topic at hand, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT Chain guides! NO one cares about what 1940 and 1950 telephones were made of,
not on this forum anyway! I am a firm believer that when a person say's things like "I been doing this for umteen years:rolleyes: , most likely doesn't mean they have been doing it right!;) age has nothing to do with smarts, if your old and not smart, that means you are just lucky!

Now back to the TOPIC at hand
I actually contacted Kawasaki themselves! because your response made absolutley no sense!:eek: The Chain Guide on the ninja line of motorcyclesis DEFINITELY MADE OF PLASTIC! NOT RUBBER! ALSO the Chain Guide is designed for the chain to DRAG on it!! Let's all pass usable Knowledge on not useless opinion!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
340 Posts
hmmmmm

Ok well rubber and plastic are both very generic terms. Did you actually get the chemical formula from Kawasaki? rubber, plastic, polymer lots of names for things that are very simular in composition and not worth arguing over.
However this is my 2 cents, and from reading a lot of posts on this web site by DaveL he knows more than anyone else here as far as I am concerned about engines and mechanics of motorcycles. So far I have enjoyed and been educated by many of his posts, and he is always posting in the interests of bieng helpful, never confrontational. The only thing I can say I noticed from his posts is he may be a little bit biased towards Kawasaki's in a good way and everyones entitled to an opinion. Thats mine!:twofinger
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top