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Discussion Starter #1
Let me start out by saying I ride a 1996 F3 with a pipe, K&N Filter, a Factory Advance and nothing else.

I went for a nice ride today up to Virginia City here in Nevada, just outside of Reno. If you aren't familiar with the roads up to Virginia City, they are some of the best twisties around, next to the Lake Tahoe and Northern California areas. Anyways, I am riding up one side of the mountain (the truck route, for those familiar) and catch up to a NICE Dodge Viper with the race paint and whatnot doing some corner "carving" of his own. I pass him and he does a little bit of work to try and keep up, but nothing major (I was taking it pretty easy as well). We get to Virginia City where the highway becomes a 20 mph city street through town and I take a different way through town than the Viper does. At this point I think he is stopping in town for a break, but when I am just about through town on a bluff overlooking the highway on the other way out of town I see the Viper about a mile or so up the highway - his way through town was obviously much better than mine. I finally get to the highway (seems like it took forever) and eat up some road to catch the Viper, who got stuck behind an old pickup truck. The pickup pulls over and we take off. I pass him on a straight away and keep on pulling away in the windy roads. I kept it at 55 in the straights (except when I passed him) because those 90 mph jaunts tend to grab some unwanted attention. In the twisties, though, it was no-holds-barred (within sanity on a public road - I want to make it home ya know?). It took almost no time until I came upon two fellas on Harleys and I was unable to pass for a long while (not safe) so the Viper caught up to me. We came to a long clear straight-away and both the Viper and I passed the Harley riders like they weren't moving at all (Not a Harley joke ;) ). The next 5 or so miles of road were clear of traffic so I ate up the curly parts and put a lot of room between me and the Viper, even while keeping it at 55 in the straights. I got caught behind an SUV and a big truck with a trailer with about 2 miles of twists left and didn't even try to pass (safe street driving).The Viper finally caught up near the bottom of the mountain. Once we were at the bottom of the mountain, I pulled over to go back up again and the guy in the Viper passed me and gave a nice wave as he drove by (he had some fun too). Nice guy, NICE car. Lots of fun.
So there it is, a nice ride that turned into a helluvalotta fun with a guy in a Viper who was actually willing to drive the thing :cool:

Man I love sportbikes. :D
 

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Bike vs. Car

Cool story, NevadaF3. I'm a sucker for these bike vs. car threads. FYI, there was a story in in the February 2002 issue of Automobile magazine matching a CBR600F4i against a Honda S2000. They raced them on a tight, twisty track in Waterford Hills, Mich. The S2000 was 4 seconds a lap quicker.

But, these being car guys, I think they stacked the deck against the bike by selecting such a course. Most everyone has seen the story in Motorcyclist where they selected a track more suitable to a bike's strong suit of acceleration and the GSX-R1000 stomped a Z06 Corvette.

In the case of the Viper, the car is awesome, but a bit of a handful for the average driver. Anyhow, the guy was a good sport about getting smoked by your CBR600. :cool:

One time on my SV650S, a guy in a Corvette tried to drag me. He caught me off guard and beat me away from the light. But at the next light I was ready for him, wheelied a bit on takeoff and pulled away from him. When we slowed down for traffic and pulled even later on, we gave each other a big thumbs up and he turned off. Gotta love moments like that. :D
 

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I usually avoid these kinds of topics, but I'll throw in my two cents on this one. Nice of you to share your wonderful experience with everyone, but before anyone gets the wrong impression let it be known that in terms of shear acceleration a Viper will make a bike look stupid (especially a 600) if you do a roll-on test which is exactly what racing through the twisties is; one giant roll-on...

All things being equal in the rider to driver skill level, a common sports car (Saleen/Roush GT, Vette, even an S2000) will give a bike a helluva run through the tight stuff & a premium sports car (911, Viper, NSX, Diablo, F355) will whoop your ass like a red headed step-child through the twisties. Anyone that thinks otherwise isn't a realist. They have about 1000% more contact patch & can withstand way more lateral G force (still under 1.0) Now that doesn't mean that the pussy driving it isn't way more concerned about smashing up his $150K car than you are tearing up your $6500 bike, but if you ever come across a real driver in a true sportscar trust me when I say you won't be posting what happened publicly due to plain ole embarrasment...

 

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Bikes vs. Cars

I disagree with you that a Viper will make a bike look stupid on sheer acceleration, Lord Duckhunter. I think the CBR600 would be a pretty even match for a Viper on straight line acceleration and that beautiful RC51 you've attached should pull away from one.

But not to split hairs, in the twisties where total grip is what counts, you are quite correct, the cars have things their way. My Falco could walk all over my WRX in a straight up battle of acceleration. Throw in some curves where the car brings that manic four wheel drive and traction into play, and then compound that advantage with higher exit speed, voila, the tables are turned.

Yesterday at Laguna Seca, the CART cars were running 1:11 lap times. Will the SBK bikes be matching that come July ? Nope. Should a well-driven Viper beat a CBR600 ? Yeah, no question about it.
 

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theres not much fun racing cages..

in a straight line..i did a BIG number on a 427 ac cobra, and new boxer..i dont think i would want to tangle with one or the other in the twisties...good way to get run over..

the boxer i raced was from about 60 on, the cobra was from a standing start...
 

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I used to own an 87 Porsche 911 Carrera 3.2 and it would spank my bike through the twisties, But in a dead stop drag my bike would spank it's ass.

Damn I miss that car. :(
 

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I too enjoy a good ole car v. bike run.
I came up on a very nice BMW in the Kern Canyon & he held me off in the upper part, which is alot of very tight 25-35 mph twisted madness, for quite a few turns. The times I thought I was going to get by him he was sliding just enough to scare me off:eek: because I thought there was a chance he would drift over into me. Of course once the the turns went to the 40mph+ type of canyon carving with some nice short sweepers in between I went by & he couldn't hang :D. I really let it go afterwards just to put some distance on him but I give the guy credit for his driving skills. Those beemers really slid well, very controlled & we are going downhill so it makes his acceleration better than if it were flat or uphill. Near the end of the canyon I pulled to the side just to see what kinda of time I had put on him. Nothing exceptional but enough to pull my sandwich out & eat about 1/2 of it. As he came by there was the friendly wave/thumbsup:thumb: from he & his passenger. We both had a good time.
Although the ability of sportbikes to out brake into corners & accelerate faster out of them usually means we are going to win I agree with LordDuckhunter's assessment of about the advantage of 4 wheels contact patch & lateral G force ability in the really tight corners. I may disagree with the roll-on matchup unless you mean literally a roll-on with out downshifting. I've not had the pleasure of going against a Viper in this type of contest (challenged a few but no takers) but every other kind of car I've gone against in this kind of race I've dropped it a couple of gears & it's see ya:D. I know there are cars out there with a higher top speed than my R6, the Viper being one, so I'm not going to be too surprised when they eventually go by me. I just hope that it takes a mile or two & they are friendly about it:thumb:
 

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Robert said:
I used to own an 87 Porsche 911 Carrera 3.2 and it would spank my bike through the twisties, But in a dead stop drag my bike would spank it's ass.

Damn I miss that car. :(
I love Porsche!

I was tooling along with a brand spanking new 911 Turbo a few days ago. The guy had his girl in the car so he wasn't going crazy fast and neither was I. We had mucho fun though, running at a nice clip and when he pulled into his driveway as I passed we exchanged a friendly hello/goodbye wave. Some people are just cool.
 

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I too raced a new porsche 911 turbo and it wasn't much of a race. Started out on the highway at about 70(he was about 5 car lengths ahead of me when I down-shifted) and by the time I hit 160 he was probably 100 yards behind me. He was hammered down the whole time cause I could smell his engine burning when he passed. Anyway, it wasn't much of a race, but of course it was a straight highway. And there are plenty of long straight highways in Texas, so I seriously doubt any cars out here are going to make someone on a sportbike (not to mention liter bike) look bad.
 

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$80,000 vs $8000...and its still a fair race...silly cars!

I think on public road twisties car guys definatley have an advantage...they dont die if there are a few grains of gravel. I think its a different race on a track. I read the Motorcycle article with z06 vs gsxr-1000 and the bike cornered faster (speed at the apex) than the car in every corner.

Straight line speed? Spend any amount you want on a street legal car and you can buy a turbo busa for a small fraction of the price and always win.
 

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Straight line speed? Spend any amount you want on a street legal car and you can buy a turbo busa for a small fraction of the price and always win. [/B]

You obviously haven't seen the video on the web with the Twin Turbo Supra eating the Turbo Busa's lunch
 

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Runo said:
I too raced a new porsche 911 turbo and it wasn't much of a race. Started out on the highway at about 70(he was about 5 car lengths ahead of me when I down-shifted) and by the time I hit 160 he was probably 100 yards behind me. He was hammered down the whole time cause I could smell his engine burning when he passed. Anyway, it wasn't much of a race, but of course it was a straight highway. And there are plenty of long straight highways in Texas, so I seriously doubt any cars out here are going to make someone on a sportbike (not to mention liter bike) look bad.
Runo,

Sure it was the new 911 Turbo that you were up against ? Top speed on those is 185mph. Whether he had the cajones to bury the gas pedal, match your 160mph and then raise you some may be another story.
 

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no i havent seen that video, nor will i believe that a dyno queen supra is capable of such a feat.

The fastest supra I've seen was some total custom job that could do 200mph. I don't know what turbo busa's are capable of, but I'm fairly certain is faster than 200mph
 

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We have a few twin turbo Supras around here that have beat Busa's in roll ons from 100+ But they are "jucing" it BIG TIME.

But I'm not sure on the top speed of the Supras and the Busa was not a turbo.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I read a magazine my buddy had about a month ago (Sport Compact??) and it was a competition between 10 cars selected from entries sent in by readers. There was a Ferrari, an MR2, etc. etc. The one that stood out, though, was a VERY trick Supra. It had 2 seperate engines (I said that right, 2 engines. I read it 3 times to make sure I wasn't a dumbass). Each axle had its own engine and transmission. The car dynoed at like 670 hp, 330 in front and 340 in back (give or take, I read it a while ago, I am a little fuzzy). They did some track times on all of the cars, including lateral G's, but I can't recall the lat G numbers - I'll try to get the mag from him). The Supra did the 1/4 mile in about 13 and 0-60 at around 3.8 or 4.0 - VERY fast for a car, but not Busa fast. Even stock the Busa would win. I think that the Ferrari had the best lateral G numbers, but I am not totally sure - I'll try to check. Not trying to start a CAR vs. Bike debate (those things go for days:rolleyes: ) the original post was just me telling my story of a guy with a Viper and a guy with a CBR out having some good clean fun :eek: :D Take it easy and keep it rubber-up :D
 

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hmmmmm.... all very interesting, just for the sake of telling stories..... Today after just installing a new C-5 x-metal TBR pipe, I was on my way back to Baylor from my friends garage when i came across a Z06 cruising at about 85 mph, I pulled along side of him and waited to get his attention. I got it and he hit the gas, I grabbed 3rd and quickly over took him in my 2001 929rr. I hit 160 and backed down. He was maybe 150 yards behind me and after i started backing down he blew past me. Now i have never had the pleasure of having a shootout with a car on the curves but id think a bike could hold its on fairly easily unless you were up against some openwheeled f-1 or something..... even a 911 or my friend in the z06 would really have to have their crap together to keep up with even an average bike rider on some good road. Those cars really take some smarts to keep them going were they are supposed to be going when they are dumping all 350+ horsies on the ground. But i am just shooting crap and prolly dont really know what i am talking about. lalalalalalalala have fun riding and dont do anything to stupid.
 

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i saw that video a year ago, and even then i thought it was total BS. The guy on the busa did something wrong/rigged lose (a al WWF)

Also notice we are talking about a highly modified supra TT PLUS its on the bottle vs a bone stock busa. (your post stated it was a N/A supra?? I cant figure that out since the video clearly states an upgraded turbo plus NOS)

A turbo busa's power to weight ratio is 1 to 1.5 vs a supra which even at 1100hp is 1 to 3...... a supra beating one is a complete joke.
 

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Lord Duckhunter said:
In this video both the Supra & the Busa are normally aspirated (no turbo's)

http://ryan.uneb.edu/videos/new/Walser-vs-busa.mpeg

BTW That is a real video & the whole thing was started between message forums on a thread similar to this.
NA Supra?? HA! Not true. Watch the part of the video where it says: "1.8 bar and 70 shot"! That's a lot of boost, and a lot of nitrous. There is another vid of the car dyno'ing at over 800bph, and the owner has done more mods to it since, and estimates that he's pushed it over 1000bph now.

The Busa was stock, and yes indeed the VERY VERY VERY fast supra did indeed beat it in a 70mph roll-on. Lets not take anything away from the car here - it is very very fast.

There is also a vid where the Walser supra goes up against a slightly modded 'busa (think it had a full race system exhaust, and I think that was about all ... someone might have the details on it). In that race the 'busa was slowly walking away from the supra. Then the guys in the supra missed 4th (from memory) gear, and the 'busa receded into the distance.


Put a turbo 'busa in there, and it would have walked all over the Walser supra. End of story. (And from what I hear the owner of the Walser supra has declined to race people that own turbo 'busas - CHICKEN :p).
 
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