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Discussion Starter #1
Big problem. My Dad is totally cool with me getting another bike, problem is he wants me to get a Harley Davidson 883r Sportster. It's not that he has anything against sportbikes, he actually likes them. Problem is that he is looking at the bike as an investment and argues that a Harley will have a much lower depreciation rate as it gets older, a fact that I really can't argue with since he has never lost money on any Harley he's bought and the NADA website confirms it too. Any ideas out there to convince him otherwise? Like I said, it's not a lost cause since he has no problem with sportbikes, it's just the resale/investment issue. Thanks!
 

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push that you want a better bike.....tell him that although harleys may lose less value....the repairs that you'll have to make to the harley will outweigh the money you'll save on depreciation values. tell him that sportbikes are still better on gas mileage...and if you drop it, neither bikes will be worth much. plastic doesnt cost as much as chrome
 

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S370HSSV 0773H
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Do you plan on selling the bike, or owning it through it's entire lifecycle? If you plan to ride it into the ground, then resale value is not of concern to you.
 

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And sportbikes can travel at highway speeds! Yippie!!!:twofinger

All kidding aside though, Con has a great point with the maintence/repair argument. Who cares if you buy a bike for $10,000 and sell if for $12,000 if you spent $8,000 repairing things that shouldn't break in the first place!:2cents:
 

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My roommate owns a 883 sportster, so here is my input.
The do drop less in value for every mile ridden. However
1.In 20k miles the bike is showing a leaking head gasket. Thats an expansive repair.
2.You are getting much less bike for your money. the 883 puts out under 40hp. HD rates them as more, but they put the HP figure at rpm that is above their rev limiter.
3. HD does not believe in using wether proof materials. This all your fastners and brackets will corrode very quickly.
4. HD uses very odd sized tires (21" front rim). While they last longer than those on a sportbike, they are much more expansive to replace.
5. If the PRIMARY chain isnt properly maintained it will slap and chew up your primary gasket. Your bike will leak tranny oil. You know how much I maintain my primary chain? NONE.
6. The brakes on the sportster absolutely suck. They plain out dont stop worth a damn, which is a safety factor.
7. Wit the initial price of both bikes being relativly low, the ammount on money saved by better resale is fairly insagnificat. If we were talking about a $30k car, this would be a different story, but when you are talking about a few grand over some years.. is enyone really going to notice?
8. Harleys still drop in value. There is a myth that their value only goes up but thats crap. You know anyone who would pay more for a ridden couple of year old harley as they would for a new one? Niether do I.
9. Harley technology is downright shamefull. The engine was last redesigned in the 80's and it was absolete when it was brand new. The forks are not adjustable at all, the shocks are adjustable for preload only. The forks flex in corners making the bike seasaw when going at what is very moderate pace by sportbike standarts (I'm talking "I'm going to enjoy the scenery pace") The swing arm is whimpier than any dirtbike. Its something that shouldnt be on a scooter. It also flexes, as does the entire frame.
10. 883's dont have a gas gage, or a low light. The only way to tell how much gas you got is to look inside the tank.
11. The clutch sucks. You need gorilla arms to operate it. Forget about 2 finger operation, its not happening.
12. They dont wheelie, they dont stoppie. Dont tell your dad that.
13. Fuel injection is a whole lot easier to live with than carburation.

All of this really applies to the pre-05 sportsters. the '05 were improved in the engine dept, with a few more hp (so its like 41 now) and a counter balancer to keep the vibes in check. This will help longevity, but there are still plenty of concerns not adressed.
 

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My days of HD or Indians are way, way in the past & definately not in my interest. I do know of a few chaps that have riden various HD bikes for some yrs, but then they are pretty good wrenchers & help each other in some occasions. One sent his 4 yr old whatever HD people name them, though definately not a Sportster, off to someplace like Alberta Cdn. Which is like two or four States away, to have it modified from a four to six speed. Tells me he cannot believe in the change & should have done this some yrs back even it it was COSTLY though not an attractive looking bike it does function well.

A chap, at the gym yesterday, that owns a large Suzy cruiser, no one at the gym rides a sportbike for they all putter along with HD or cruisers (this is the land of older riders so 95% rider HD or Cruisers though I am older then they are being 75 yrs of age)------the very thought of riding a sportbike frightens them. Anyway it seems his son, in three years is now into his fourth HD m/c--------I wonder how much he lost in selling the prior three HD bikes for I know the first one was a Sportster. The father has been riding the same Kwacker Cruiser for past four yrs & yes he clocks a lot of miles at below the max speed limit as he likes touring like down to California from central part of B.C. Cdn & back again plus other tours in Cdn.

Interesting thing is we compared milage of '05 & though I was out for around a month (june 10th to late July ) with a loss of balance due to inner ear infection, I clocked more miles then he did on my three sportbikes with only 4 to 8 hr runs each time for I do not tour & it is out for the run & back home the same day.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
All nice ideas, but I need some way to prove it to him...Since I know the Harley will have big repair costs, does anyone know of a way I could possibly figure out the long term cost, maybe the cost per mile or yearly operating costs between the 883r Sportster and a sportbike (GSXR 750, SV1000)? Anything, I need to do whatever it takes!!!
 

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71custom said:
All nice ideas, but I need some way to prove it to him...Since I know the Harley will have big repair costs, does anyone know of a way I could possibly figure out the long term cost, maybe the cost per mile or yearly operating costs between the 883r Sportster and a sportbike (GSXR 750, SV1000)? Anything, I need to do whatever it takes!!!
Who's buying the bike? You also said another bike. What kind of scoot are you coming off of?
 

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ok. take the initial value of say an '03 SV650 and 883. then take their blue book after 2 years, with 10k miles (assuming 5k/yr)
find out the difference between the two. Take that difference, and devide is by $45 (going rate of shop labor) and that should tell you how many hours of labor it will take to make up the difference. You can further devide that number in half since most jobs run half labor half parts. Then look at the hour figure, and try to find a repair job or two that will likely take that much time. Ask your dad if you are likely to expirience those types of problems in your first 2 years of riding a sportster.


Dont they teach math in schools anymore? :D
 

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Are we talking new or used?


If he's set on getting a sportster, try to get him to opt for a 1200. Or for that matter a new Buell.;)
 

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For one, Harleys aren't holding their value as much as they used to. I don't have "proof," but they've been selling a ton, and the used market is much more plentiful than it used to be. Only time I see used HD's selling for a good clip is when they're heavily modified.

And if you buy used, you won't lose as much money whether it's a sport bike or Harley.

I've had two used sportbikes I bought then sold a year later for more than I paid for them. Granted they were cheap($1000 and $2100), but I still didn't lose on them.
 

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Can you put a price on the things you enjoy?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Ok Vash, I used your idea. Problem is that for a GSXR 750 I need to find some repair to a Harley that would need 32.21 hours to complete...:(
 

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Vash suggested a Suzy SV-650 & not a super hot trotting GSXR-750 which is a replica of their road racing bike & definately not what even Vash would suggest as a beginner's bike. Personally I would suggest a Suzy 500cc vertical twin of the competitive 500cc by Kawasaki as they are both better for a newbie.

At the gym on Monday a chap with a big & heavy Kwacker Cruiser mentioned in his 4 yrs he has had the same bike while his son started out on an 883 Sportster Harley & into his 4th year as well, but now into his FOURTH Harley-Davidson. I do not think they broke down, but he keeps on shifting bikes, very similiar to each other & traking the loss in trade-ins. Not what I would call a way of saving money or buying one bike to sell it some yrs down the road, as your Dad feels to be almost profitable or little loss.

True hang onto the bike for 50 yrs & you will possibly make decent profit out of the bike if it is kept in prime condition. Mind you the same with any make of a cage.
 

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71custom said:
Ok Vash, I used your idea. Problem is that for a GSXR 750 I need to find some repair to a Harley that would need 32.21 hours to complete...:(
I hate to sound like the algebra teachers I despised, but can you show your work?
 

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k the base 883 is $6500. $7700 for any of the fancier models. The SV is $6k or $6500 for the fancy model.
gixxer 600 is $8800 (its not really a fair comparison, they are in totally different classes)

after 2 years
The plain sportster drops to $3800 the fancy stays at $4000
Plain 650 drops to $2800 the S model is $3000
600 gixer hangs at $4000

So the losses are
Plain 883:$2700 or %41
883 custom:$3700 or %48
SV650:$3200 or %53
SV650S:$3500 or %53
GSXR600: $4800 or %54

So the differences are:
Sprotster>SV: $500 (5.5hrs labor and parts)
Sportster>SVS: $800 (8.8 labor and parts)
Sprotster>SGXR: $2100 (23 labor and parts)
SportsterC>SV: -$500 (yeah, the SV actually saves you money) (5.5hrs of labor in mods to do to your SV for free!)
SprostserC>SVS: -$200 (still in SV favor) (2.2hrs in mods)
SprortsterC>GSXR: $1100 (12hrs of labor and parts)

Call the dealership and ask how long it takes them to replace primary chain and head gasket...
I've also noticed that HD finances at 7.5%. I have no expirience with suziki, but kawi financed me for 2.0% on my first bike and 4.0% on my second. Considering Suzuki uses household retail for financing (which kawasaki does too) It'd safe to assume the same rates. Now I'm not talking those $60 a month payments. Thats stupid. I'm assuming you pay the bike off in three years (by the time you trade)
That means that a $7000 harley will cost you $838.64 to finance
A $6250 SV costs $393.72 over the life of the load
The gixxer will cost you $553.16 to finance

On top of that, the more expansive HD (in comparison to SV) will tax you more.

So the HD gains are dissapearing quickly. On top of that consider that sportbikes never sell for above MSRP, while its uncommon to convince you HD dealer to sell at MSRP, much less below. Remember the V-rod? and $18k bike (msrp) that dealers were charging north of $30k for.
 

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Unas_the_Slayer said:
Who the hell buys a bike for the resale value?


seriously...
 

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Discussion Starter #19
All right, I think I've figured out something. What my dad said holds truly when buying a bike brand new, but not necessarily when buying used. I know what I can get a used bike for, so what I did was to use Kelly Blue Book to figure out the percentage of depreciation over a two year period, then applied that to the intital purchase cost of a bike. While the Harley has a little lower dep. rate, the higher acquisition cost mostly negates the money saved when compared to other bikes. Heres what I came up with:

GSXR-750 SV1000 883r
Intitial Cost (Used) $6,000.00 $5,500.00 $6,690.00
Depreciation Rate 9.993% 7.496% 7.265%

Value after 2 years $5,400.42 $5,087.72 $6,203.97
Depreciation $599.58 $412.28 $486.03

Value after 4 years $4,860.76 $4,706.34 $5,753.25
Depreciation $1,139.24 $793.66 $936.75

Value after 6 years $4,375.02 $4,353.56 $5,335.28
Depreciation $1,624.98 $1,146.44 $1,354.72

Of course, this assumes a constant dep. rate, so as years progress the figures would be skewed, but since I plan on buying another bike after about 3 or 4 it really won't matter so much. This all look right?
 

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I don't want to sound like an asshole (ok, I do :twofinger), but slam any bike into a car at 50mph or lowside it into a turn and tell me how much you can resell it for.
 
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