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Discussion Starter #1
I learned in my MSF course that when you are taking a corner and you need to stop the first thing to do is straighten the bike out and then apply the brakes. You will get max braking effectiveness and you won't crash by grabing the front brake while turning. This makes perfect sense and it is the technique I use when I need to stop while I am turning.

So my question is this, for all the experienced riders out there are there other more advance ways of stoping the bike when leaning? Do you use just the rear brake to slow you down until you can straighten out and then apply the front brake? Do you use some front brake and just don't grab a lot of front brake? Does it depend on the road conditions? Sometimes I find myself using a little front brake while leaning if the road is completely dry. Basically what do you do to stop your bike while taking a corner? I need to know if I am taking a corner so hard my pegs are scraping and I see something in the road and need to stop quick, do I have to straighten up all the way before I touch the brakes?

Thank you in advance,
Dave:cool:
 

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Any real hard braking action that becomes necessary in a turn is a good indication that you're in way over your head. If there is an object in the road, you're probably better off just steering to avoid it. The stuff they go over in MSF will work fine at normal road speeds. Not much use going 70 around a 35 though.
 

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If I have to use any brake in a corner (I try to avoid it, but it happens sometimes) I tend to use the front brake, its a lot easier to control then the rear brake. I keep my toe away from that rear brake cause its too easy to lock it up. I do use both brakes if I have to brake to set up for the corner.
 

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You cannot bring your bike to a complete stop when your are in a turn without falling over. The only way to come to a stop and not tip over is to have your bike straight. The MSF course teaches the stand the bike up then apply brake method because it is the safest most effective way to STOP your bike.

Of course you can apply brakes while in a turn like you said you have done(trail braking) But this requires much more control and smoothness to keep your bike from loosing traction. More lean = less traction, so the further your leaned over the less brakes you can use safely. Generally using the rear brake while in turn will keep the bike settled and more stable than using the front brakes in a turn. There is not trick to stopping fast while leaned over because you can't do it. You have to straighten the bike to stop. The best you can do while leaned over into a turn is smooth gradual sowing by using the brakes lightly.

If you are encountering situations where you are scraping your pegs and you have to stop fast then you are riding WAY too fast for those conditions. It's time to go to the track.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Rug Burn said:
Any real hard braking action that becomes necessary in a turn is a good indication that you're in way over your head. If there is an object in the road, you're probably better off just steering to avoid it. The stuff they go over in MSF will work fine at normal road speeds. Not much use going 70 around a 35 though.
Good point!

Thank you for the replies, sounds like the overall consensus is what I had thought, if I am leaned over in a turn (going pretty fast) then I am going to be shit out of luck if I see something in the road that I have to stop for. Guess I will have to look into a track day, or find roads that have open sweepers wear I can look far into the corner. Thank you for the help guys!:D
 

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You can brake coming in to the apex but don't load up that front tire too much cause you'll learn a valuable lesson.

do a search on "Trail braking".
 

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fotobw said:
II need to know if I am taking a corner so hard my pegs are scraping and I see something in the road and need to stop quick, do I have to straighten up all the way ....
if you're that far gone don't bother straightening up, that way it'll be easier to kiss your ass goodbye. :rolleyes:
 

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I need to know if I am taking a corner so hard my pegs are scraping and I see something in the road and need to stop quick, do I have to straighten up all the way before I touch the brakes?

Thank you in advance,
Dave:cool: [/B][/QUOTE]

Trust me. If you lean more and hit both brakes hard, you'll stop even quicker.
 

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yelling AHHHH! helps... mouth wide open will act like a parachute...
 

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From my expierience on braking mid corner be carefull. The first time i grabbed a handfull of brake mid corner was a kinda scary :eek:
i had gone into a corner way to fast. Pannicked and grabbed onto the front brake real hard. The bike stood up and went straight off the road between two bollards!!! Phew that was close i bounced and jumped a small ditch and for some reason managed to stay on 2 wheels. Put it down to expierience and learn from my mistakes.:D . I have since learned that my bike will handle a lot more than i thought back then and is perfectly able to corner at the speed i was going it is just that i did not know it at the time. Now adays i would react slightly differently. I have more confidence in myself and my bike. I also know not to grab large handfulls of brake.
 

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If you must apply the brakes in a corner do it very carefully. Too much front . and the bike will stand up and off the road you go. Too much rear and the rear will slide out and off the road you go. The best way to avoid objects in a turn (like slower bikes) is apply throttle and bust the rear end loose and powerslide by the slow guy while leaving a long nasty black strip of sweaty Dunlop 208gp.:D
 

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As PJ1 said the bike will automatically stand up under brakes - that's why it runs wide. So as long as you're not already using absolutely maximum traction from the front you can apply the brakes fairly safely. However the bike will stand up a little and run wide. If you really want to stop and there is a runoff area, countersteer to get it upright more faster :D so you can nail the brakes harder - before you get off the road and into the gravel if that's where you're heading.

Most of the time however you don't really need or want to stop, just bleed off a little speed. So you want to stand it a little more upright to give yourself some more traction power in order to brake. Brake hard but briefly, and countersteer the bike back over before you run off the road. The process happens very quickly - given that you eat up roadway very quickly when running it a little wide - but if you're got the roadspace to play with ... If you're approaching the bike's cornering limits you're pretty much screwed in this situation - by getting on and off the brakes you're unstabilising the bike and shifting the weight around on your wheels.
 

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Without reading all the posts here's my 0.01 (half price today):

1, even in a corner there is more breaking power in the front than the rear so unless you're talking about very light braking use the front.

2, the msf is correct that you can't achieve maximum breaking until upright but you can achieve SIGNIFICANT braking (certainly significant when inches count and they frequently do at speed and leaned over while staring at the grill of some cage who doesn't understand the double yellow) while leaned over.

3, the only way to know is to practice at the real thing to find what your tires and bike are capable of, unless they're crap you'll be surprised how much. You can do this real well on a clover leaf that strings together 4 270 degree turns or better yet once you've done some of that do a track day and really explore. As long as you're smooth then if you go slightly overboard you should be able to recover without crashing. I.E. don't get stupid, make small changes in braking force and you'll be fine.
 

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fotobw, couple things.
Firstly. What are you talking about?! GRAB! You mean, squeeze.
Ease-squeeze-ease-squeeze. Remember?

What they teach you in MSF are the basics. If you are trying to drag pegs in a turn on the street, you are kind of riding beyond the purpose and teachings of the MSF course.

They also teach to use both front and rear. It is a fact that using both can decrease stopping distance. Do a survey (we already did one a while back) and you will find that most sportbike riders don't use too much front. Personally, I can stop faster with a front brake only than with both. Thats on a sportbike though. After one week on a cruiser, I am very comfortable sliding the tires around. Its feels bit different on a sportbike.

The MSF is taught more with cruisers in mind than sportbikes. It isn't gospel, it is taught to keep you safe for the first little bit, while you safely (sort of) teach yourself how to ride for real.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
funksouljon said:
fotobw, couple things.
Firstly. What are you talking about?! GRAB! You mean, squeeze.
Ease-squeeze-ease-squeeze. Remember?
Yeah I remember, bad choice of words.

Thank you for the tips guys, any others are always appreciated.:)
 

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although most of what has been said is right, dont think that you cant slow down and avoid obstacles while at full lean.
use both brakes and use them progressively, meaning dont snatch the brake lever, especially the rear, just use a little of the rear and more of the front, pulling on them harder and harder until you are slow as you need to be.
remember while a bike is in motion, its natural state is to be upright, you can avoid obstacles and slow down while turing, it just takes confidence, unfortunately you cant get that kind of practice without having encountered problems on the road.
Alot of people say "i had to lay the bike down" i dont really understand that, im sure that there are circumstances that would make you want to, but i think that most of the time you can keep the bike up unless youre getting hit by something else..
ive had lots of crazy things happen to me on the road, and ive never "had to lay the bike down" ..maybe im just lucky, but ive got 8 years bike experience and never needed to.
 

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devils playmate said:
although most of what has been said is right, dont think that you cant slow down and avoid obstacles while at full lean.
Read an exerpt from "The Secret Ride of Walter Mitty" from the Nov '01 issue of Motorcyclist:

"...we watched from the side of the track as Spencer swept into a 90-degree, third-gear corner. After his knee had touched the deck, he got back on the brakes, and hauled the bike to a stop, right on the apex of the turn. Ienatsch provided a running commentary, but even if God had been there and told us what we were about to witness, I wouldn't have believed it without seeing it with my own eyes."

Granted, this is Freddie Spencer that we are talking about here, but it can be done...with a LOT of practice.
 

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Re: Re: Braking while turning.

KLRAdam said:
I need to know if I am taking a corner so hard my pegs are scraping and I see something in the road and need to stop quick, do I have to straighten up all the way before I touch the brakes?

Thank you in advance,
Dave:cool:
IMHO at that point the only hope you have is to look to the side of the object where you would like to go. Put more simply, you go where you look, so if your eyes are fixed on this object, you most definitley will hit it.
 

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devils playmate said:
it just takes confidence, unfortunately you cant get that kind of practice without having encountered problems on the road

Sure you can, it's called a track day or even better when just starting out, a parking lot (find a nice new mall with good clean surfaces). First get comfortable with lots of lean angle then start braking harder and harder while leaned over until you start to nudge that traction limit (this is called practice, say it with me everyone, P,R,A,C,T,I,C,E). I practice frequently due to the number of blind corners I ride and the FACT that I will eventually have to scrub off lots of speed when leaned over.
Every once in a while out in the mountains) I'll just up and brake to a stop (after checking mirrors of course). You'll be amazed, either by how long or short you take to stop. Hopefully by how short a distance you can stop in.

Waiting for the real world to throw you a chance to brake while leaned over invites big trouble. Better to have done it several times prior to the big self critiquing test on the road.

Besides, it's fun.
 
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