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So what do you think? Are full systems really worth the almost doubled price over slip ons? How much more power do you gain by the full than the slip on?
 

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No. :)

On the late model high performance bikes the difference in full vs slip-on is about 1-2rwhp.
 

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On your '94 CBR...maybe. Depends on what else you intend to do to it. If you open up the exhaust, then you will need to open up the intake. Then you will need to correct the fuel mix. This is done by either remapping (on fuel injected bikes) or rejetting (on carbureted bikes). In this case, you could probably gain fairly substantial power. Just adding the full system without any other modifications could actually hurt power. You might even want to consider simply regearing to make the power delivery match more closely what you need.

On the later model bikes, especially "hyper-bikes" like the R1's, the CBR929's, GSXR1000's and even the full on mid-sized sportbikes like F4i's, R6's, GSXR600's, GSXR750, etc. they are already running fairly close to the HP potential for the stock internal engine configuration. Therefore, every extra pony you squeeze out of them comes at a price. You can do away with the EPA "lean spots" with pipes, filters, remaps, etc. but you only gain a few HP with these mods. If you really want to get the extra HP from them, then you really have to be willing to spend the money with internal engine modifications, like freer flowing heads, different valve angles, reworked cams, different pistons, etc. It gets very expensive and the reliability goes way down. Full out race bikes have to be rebuilt after only a very short running time, or they will grenade. Some of them after every race. Also, you can affect the "streetability" of the bike by trying to wring too much out of it. Who wants to keep the engine in the 10,000 rpm range all the time on the street? If you spend all that money on Hp you want to use it, right? It's usually all up top on the really high performance engines.

Remember that making your bike faster won't necessarily make you faster. The first step to making you faster is to fix your suspension. Simply having your stock suspension properly adjusted for you and your riding style will make an incredible difference. Then go take a track course. Once you know how to use the (properly set up) power you already have, you may discover that you don't need any more.

A good slip-on won't gain a lot of power for you (if any), but it will sound better, and it's a lot cheaper than a full system.
 

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GaBandit12 said:
Remember that making your bike faster won't necessarily make you faster. The first step to making you faster is to fix your suspension. Simply having your stock suspension properly adjusted for you and your riding style will make an incredible difference. Then go take a track course. Once you know how to use the (properly set up) power you already have, you may discover that you don't need any more.
I could not have said it better myself! Great post!
 

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If we're all honest, the main purpose of fitting an aftermarket
exhaust is to do something about the (lack off) noise of our bikes
There's not too many cans that will give you much more than 5 or 6 bhp. Not really enough to notice the difference on a big sportbike and making you zoom off into the distance and leaving your mates behind. Fitting a noisy exhaust makes us feel better about our bikes that have been turned into whispering hotpoints by over-restrictive legislation and they are a lot more fashionable that the O.E. cans which come on the bikes.

Damn, glad I got that off my chest !:D
 

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GaBandit12 said:
On your '94 CBR...maybe. Depends on what else you intend to do to it. If you open up the exhaust, then you will need to open up the intake. Then you will need to correct the fuel mix. This is done by either remapping (on fuel injected bikes) or rejetting (on carbureted bikes). In this case, you could probably gain fairly substantial power. Just adding the full system without any other modifications could actually hurt power. You might even want to consider simply regearing to make the power delivery match more closely what you need.

On the later model bikes, especially "hyper-bikes" like the R1's, the CBR929's, GSXR1000's and even the full on mid-sized sportbikes like F4i's, R6's, GSXR600's, GSXR750, etc. they are already running fairly close to the HP potential for the stock internal engine configuration. Therefore, every extra pony you squeeze out of them comes at a price. You can do away with the EPA "lean spots" with pipes, filters, remaps, etc. but you only gain a few HP with these mods. If you really want to get the extra HP from them, then you really have to be willing to spend the money with internal engine modifications, like freer flowing heads, different valve angles, reworked cams, different pistons, etc. It gets very expensive and the reliability goes way down. Full out race bikes have to be rebuilt after only a very short running time, or they will grenade. Some of them after every race. Also, you can affect the "streetability" of the bike by trying to wring too much out of it. Who wants to keep the engine in the 10,000 rpm range all the time on the street? If you spend all that money on Hp you want to use it, right? It's usually all up top on the really high performance engines.

Remember that making your bike faster won't necessarily make you faster. The first step to making you faster is to fix your suspension. Simply having your stock suspension properly adjusted for you and your riding style will make an incredible difference. Then go take a track course. Once you know how to use the (properly set up) power you already have, you may discover that you don't need any more.

A good slip-on won't gain a lot of power for you (if any), but it will sound better, and it's a lot cheaper than a full system.
Good explanation. :)
 

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Then there's the weight savings as well. Most aftermarket full systems are lighter than the stock, so if you lose 10 pounds or so (just pulling that figure out of...) and gain five or six hp, you'll almost be looking at a perceiveable power increase.
 

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Doogie said:
So what do you think? Are full systems really worth the almost doubled price over slip ons? How much more power do you gain by the full than the slip on?
It's funny that people perceive full systems to cost double......I have often been asked what's the best pipe for the gixxer.......everybody who knows me thinks I'm a paid spokesperson for M4. Why?? You don't pay double for a full system!!

I agree 100% that most people buy pipes for looks and sound. The hp increase is just a nice "my bike put out this on the dyno" conversation piece. I do think that the performace gain is relevant when shopping, but you don't need to break the bank when shopping for looks or ponies. Full systems aren't tht much more and for the gixxer owner (up until now 2002) had to decide between flange on with a black mid pipe or full system. Lookswise, the full had the slip beat.




P:p
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Re: Re: Are full systems worth the $$$$$?

Paul 750 said:


everybody who knows me thinks I'm a paid spokesperson for M4. Why?? You don't pay double for a full system!!

P:p
You're right they cost more than double almost triple actually. :D :p :D

R6 Standard mount Aluminum slip on. $245
R6 Standard mount Aluminum full sys. $682

http://m4exhaust.com/pages/yamaha.html
 

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You know I paid $340 for my Yosh RS-3 Carbon Fiber Race slip-on. Which matched well with my K&N so no rejetting was required. Now the full system version of this exhaust would have set me back $690. Then add the jet kit ($100) and labor for jetting ($$$), and you get alot more than just double the price. Now instead of having a whole lotta exhaust cluttering up my garage, I have just a Titanium Kawi cannister on a shelf. I also had money left over to buy other neat stuff. So if your bike is fairly new, get a slip-on and ride it like you stole it.
 

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it doesnt have to affect the power. my stock gsxr heeders and pipe compared to my full akropovic is night and day. One is heavy as ****, and the other i can hold up with 2 fingers.
 

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Keep in mind that when you compare weights of exhaust you need compare correctly. A stock full system compared to aftermarket full system is drastic but you have to realize that the difference is due to the heavy cans not the headers. The OEM headers are not much heavier than aftermarket headers. The difference is only a couple of pounds. The difference in weight of the cans is probably 12-20 depending on the bike(ie, twin can or single). Point being that a full system doesn't save you much more weight than slip-ons with later model bikes especially if the OEM header is Titanium.
 

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Doogie said:
So what do you think? Are full systems really worth the almost doubled price over slip ons? How much more power do you gain by the full than the slip on?
To answer Doogie's question...... Slip-on's are not used for horsepower and torque. Slip-on's are used primarly for sound, and sound only. You may get 1-2 more horses with a slip-on, and to me you may get 3-4 with a full exhaust system. With a slip-on, 90% you will not have to jet, with a full system you will have to jet. Let see $290.00 slip-on, no jetting, you can put the system on. 690-$$$$ full exhaust, have to jet $110.00, K&N filter $65.00, plus labor ( not alot of people know how to jet and the full systems are alot more involved in putting them on).

So, to answer the question. slip-on= sound, cheap, little horsepower gain....... Full exhaust= more horsepower and torque, jet, filter= more money!:D
 

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RCjohn said:
Keep in mind that when you compare weights of exhaust you need compare correctly. A stock full system compared to aftermarket full system is drastic but you have to realize that the difference is due to the heavy cans not the headers. The OEM headers are not much heavier than aftermarket headers. The difference is only a couple of pounds. The difference in weight of the cans is probably 12-20 depending on the bike(ie, twin can or single). Point being that a full system doesn't save you much more weight than slip-ons with later model bikes especially if the OEM header is Titanium.
Actualy:D my stock headers are about 5x the weight of my akropovic headers.
 

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A whole system would be worth it to me. The difference on my bike is stock 132 rwhp compared to 149 rwhp with full muzzy system, jet kit, and timing advancer. Also dropping weight 15 pounds. I picked up a diconnected full exhaust at the kawi shop and brother it's heavy. I was quoted 1200, for what I want to do with my bike makes that worth it.
Shannon
 
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