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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Please don't get to bent by this thread's title, It's not meant to be taken seriously.

I've been riding sportbikes for a season and half. I started on a Ninja 500R and now own an YZF600R. MY question/point is this.... Although my ego tells me that eventually I'd like to move up to a BUSA or GSXR1000, my brain screams WHY! Granted my YZF600R may not have the fastest 1/4 mile on the track and may top out at dare I say a mere 150mph, but I've never come close to using the bike's full power/speed on the streets. The way I hear people talking on these 'sportbike' boards and magazines, you'd think that the 600 class of bikes was simply an intermediate 'trainer' bike. So I have to ask...

Where do you 'racer type' guys/gals get to test the true limits of your bikes? I've had my bike up to about 90-95mph on the freeway and it wasn't even sweating. I on the other hand was fearfully awaiting the appearance of the pretty red and blue lights behind me. I can't imagine what the cops do to you if you're caught doing > 115 mph on the freeway. I'd imagine that they don't even waste time asking for your license and reg. They simply handcuff you and read you your rights. :crying: So, anyway back to my question. Where do you really get to 'test' the limits of a sportbike with 600 or more ccs? The track seems to be the only place realistically, but access to these places is both limited and expensive. Do you guys/gals risk your licenses and potential freedom by doing it on public highways?

If you agree that it's nearly impossible to fully utilize the performance in a 600cc bike, then why are WE always 'upgrading' to even bigger bikes. Illogically, we buy performance that we'll never get a chance to really use. As I said in the beginning of my post, to some extent I've been subconsiously lured into the same zombie like 'must upgrade....' state, but I wonder why...why....why.. we just can't recognize that bigger isn't always better. O'well, I guess it's the american way.

See ya on the road. I'll be guy on the Turbo Busa with the puzzled/panic'd look on his face ... :hurl:

BTW: Has anyone ever been stopped by the police while going
over 115mph? So... What happens? I'll certainly understand
if it's too painful for you to recollect.
 

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Ok bro, here's what kind of responses you're gonna get.

A lot of people will say they only test their bikes on the track. And you'd be stupid to test them on the streets. But I'd be willing to be alot of them aren't being completely honest.

Then there's those who say they just turn in loose on the streets, and don't let the cop's catch them.

I have had my bike as fast as it will go on the highway where I KNOW I won't see a cop. I have also had it pretty fast on back roads where I also know I won't see a cop. But if you really want to go nuts without fear of anal raping you're sure to get in prison, go to a track. I have the same bike as you, and I would someday like to get an R1, or a zx9. Why? I don't know.
 

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I know I've seen statements from world class racers saying all you need for street riding is a 600 streetbike, anything more is overkill. I know I lost the "must upgrade" mentality through a combination of hitting the age of thirty and also attending some track days. When you get passed by someone on an older bike with half the horsepower, you'll understand that for most mortals, riding skill counts for more than technology/displacement. The only real difference I noticed in going to a 900 is the added midrange, which is nice. But as far as my riding pace on the backroads, it is probably the same between the 600 and the 900.
 

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This is really a good question. I, for one, might offer this (though with NO personal experience to back it up). Sportbikes are my kind of bike. But I commute mostly on mine. How comfortable is a hot 600 (R6, GSXR600) for an hour or more in time? Not very. I suspect a 1k might be more comfortable, but that's the ONLY reason I could see upgrading that far. The tradeoff in insurance cost is huge, so the comfort difference would have to be too.

I like tight handling, but with some comfort. And I haven't had my bike to its limits b/c I haven't been on the track yet. I live in a wildlife zone, so there's no safe speeds beyond 80 or so on public roads. And, while I might be labeled a liar, consider my age and family background, and the realization that I might actually be honest presents itself. Safety, for me, is paramount, but I refuse to give up the fun itself.
 

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I went from an F4i in March to a 929RR in June. Reasoning - I was too big and uncomfortable on the 600. I'm 6'4" and about 250+. The 600 was just way to small for me to be on. Plus being on the bigger bike makes me more comfortable in my riding abilities.
 

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ever hear of this theory?

MORON Theory= If something in some quantity is good, then more is better (ie-- Put MORe ON). Applies to ketchup, nails/screws and engine displacement, among other things. Always cracks me up.

Reasons many folks would upgrade to a 1000cc bike--

a) Need to go faster (some people gotta...)
b) Like the more easily usable midrange (practical folks...)
c) Big/tall people who feel smaller is not proportional (valid...)
d) Ego/bragging rights/I-got-the-money-why-not? satisfaction.

The allure of track time for me is a) traffic of like mind, b) traffic going one direction only, c) legal and d) safer placement (run-off area, no trees, ambulance, etc). I wouldn't necessarily go faster if I was on a track, but I'd feel better/safer about doing it.

There is a huge difference between my wife's Ninja 500 and my 600R, but a much smaller difference between 600R and 1k anything. It gets me going plenty fast and has more fast to spare.
 

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thompsonian said:
I went from an F4i in March to a 929RR in June. Reasoning - I was too big and uncomfortable on the 600. I'm 6'4" and about 250+. The 600 was just way to small for me to be on. Plus being on the bigger bike makes me more comfortable in my riding abilities.
Strange answer...
I say this because the 929 is more cramped than the F4i :confused:
I ve ridden both, and the reason why I didn't buy my friend's 929 2 months ago, when he changed to 954, was that I couldn't fit!!!

Aris
 

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See I feel more comfortable and at ease on the 929. To me it feels like a bigger, more comfortable bike. I know the engine is bigger, but the ergo's to me feel more like home than the 600.
 

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ariszr7 said:
Strange answer...
I say this because the 929 is more cramped than the F4i :confused:
I ve ridden both, and the reason why I didn't buy my friend's 929 2 months ago, when he changed to 954, was that I couldn't fit!!!

Aris
I agree with this. Bigger engine doesn't always mean ergos for bigger people. My F4 fit me WAY better than my XX did. The XX stretched me out in the upper body more as it had a longer wheelbase, but my legs fit the F4 like a glove, while they were always uncomfortable on the XX.
 

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YZF600DREX said:
I wonder why...why....why.. we just can't recognize that bigger isn't always better.
Yeah keep telling yourself that and your girl friends. Until one day someone bigger and better will comes along :twofinger

But on the serious note. A bigger bike makes things easier in my opinion. You can ride bigger more powerful bike much harder with a lot less effort then a 600. That’s probable the reason many people get hut because they don’t realize how fast they are riding. The power and the midrange it’s just great for the street especially on the back roads but you have to be experienced to use it the right way that’s why many of use start small and work are way up. Believe me going from my CBR 600 F2 to my ZX-7RR the power and handling is so different. I could not be happier with my ZX-7RR. You don't have to use all the power if you don't want to but there are places where you can and I don’t care what 600 your riding your will have a hard time keeping up. (On any bike) First of all its’ all about experience and the more you have riding the better. If you can’t ride your 600 to the point when it feels slow and it’s not that fun anymore. Then you’re not ready to move up to bigger bike. If you think a 600 is all you need for the street then please stay with it because your not ready to move up.

An other perspective is the looks of the bike. Some 1,000 look better then the 600 but now days they are very similar. Like my bike only comes in a 750cc so I can’t get a smaller or bigger bike even if I wanted to. I like the way it looks and that’s one of the reasons I wanted one. Also there is a tone more upgrades and custom parts for the 1,000s as well. I only wish I could buy half the crap for my bike that’s out for the R1 for example. Now days more and more pars are available for 600 as well but if you have an older 600 forget it. And the main reason why to get a bigger bike like a 750s and 1,000s it come with better technology and suspension components. So in the end you are getting the best that’s out there the top of the line each manufacture has to offer. Just because you can’t use all the power on the street it don’t mean you should not have it.

Anyway I like my ZX-7RR even if it’s not a 1,000 but I’m working on customizing it to be lighter and faster just because I want to make it the best I can. (Team Green Replica)

Anyway, if one day you ever ride some thing bigger then 600 or a new 600 you will understand.

Ride safe :)
 

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I'll confess if I am on my 600 or my 929 I am scooting along at the SAME PACE & that means above the max speed limit. Yes I have suffered in obtaining two speeding tickets this year yet first I have had since '77.

In truth the 600 will do everything the 929 will. Even with the best mid-range engine of the 600s it does not have the torque of the 929. Also it is much easier of petrol.

The 929 is not as easy to flip around or corner as easy even with a change from a 190 to 180 r/tyres & bike being 38 lbs lighter then the 600. Also it is a bummer to ride on a gravel road as it has so much power & the throttle feels like a quick-action twist grip.

Still is a nice change though same with the 600 after riding the 929. People buy hot cars & cannot use 1/4 of the
power without breaking the speed limit. So it is up to the buyer & I have the money for both YET it I had to drop to one bike it would be my 600r & if that was no longer avaliable I would look seriously at a Suzy SV-650 or 650S for most of the 600s are with engines that are to peaky for decent performance.
 

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<Drei>
You can ride bigger more powerful bike much harder with a lot less effort then a 600

************
Wrong, your just twisting the gas more
on the big bike and you think your riding it harder.

<Drei>
You don't have to use all the power if you don't want to but there are places where you can and I don’t care what 600 your riding your will have a hard time keeping up.
*********************
If your talking about on the street, fine I have little urge to go that fast. Track riding is another story,and I would be passing you in most turns- i have a vid from yrs ago at Sebring where a tzr250 & my 350lc ran away from the stock class 250-1000cc, oh and a cbr600 was third.

Heck I could go on and on and point out that the fastest cornering bikes are 125/250 but it really comes down to ego-

bigger isn`t always better.


A smaller bike demands better lines, braking,ect as you just can`t roll-on the gas.

Kinda like driving a stick shift or a automatic, myself I`ll take the stick shift anyday and enjoy the "work" of shifting.


bikes owned- in my 30+yrs of riding.
yz80,125,490
fzr400,600,1000
rd350lc, nc30
But the most fun was my 3 ysr50`s
 

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When looking at sportbikes to buy two years ago I found the ergonomics of the Kawasaki line to be the most humane. I went with the 9R though I had considered the 6R and the 12R. In the past two seasons I've put 23,000 miles on my 2001 9R and intend/hope to ride it at least 5 more seasons with similar mileage per season. This will rack up perhaps 80,000 miles. I'm not sure it will last that long, but I am certain that it will last longer than a ZX6R if driven at the same pace. The ZX6R will need to be working harder to go the same speed over the same distance and will therefore wear faster. The weight difference between the 2001 6R and the 9R is pretty negligible for someone my size so that was not a factor. I opted not to get the 12R (knowing it would last longer than the 9R) because the fuel economy sucks. Oddly, the 9r and the 6R tend to get about the same mileage.

So there is another reason for a bigger than 600cc bike.

I have never ridden at my 9R's top speed and don't really care to. I ride it at 3000 to 4000 RPM on back roads 98% of the time. If I want to corner quickly, I downshift and run it between 5000 and 9000 RPM. Any more engine speed and my ham fisted technique with the throttle makes the response too jerky and I tend to go slower while taking more risks.
 

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I find this post very interesting as I have latly been going the opposite direction, I've had all liter bikes for several years, and in the last 6 months I've bought a 600 and a 500, and am looking to go even smaller. I think a smaller bike will force you to learn better riding habits as it will tell on your mistakes sooner. I'm looking to pick up a 250 or 125 when I get the cash.

James.
 

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I have one of the slower new 600cc bikes and it still goes 0-100 faster than i can think, making me feel as though i'm going to fly off the back if i dont grip hard with my knees. I could not imagine an '04 r1 with 180 hp. that would just be suicide for me... i like my 600 and although alot of peopel say i'll grow out of it.. i really dont think so. Being that i'm faster than just about any production car made, and most of the moded cars. A motorcycle for me is stupid fast.. the only think i can imagine myself getting is an r6 or the daytona 600. I like the weight and i can handel the power of the 600cc's i think i would just kill myself on a biger bike... just my :2cents:
 

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There is a old saying, and I can't for the life of me recall who said it, but...imho it stands true today more than ever...

It more fun to ride a slow bike fast, than it is to ride a fast bike slow....

I know a few riders that rip it up on liter bikes..I'm talkin bout the track here, but not nesessarly racing. On the other hand, I've seen skilled on 250's make sportbike riders on 600's to 1k's look like they are standing still...

I think chaos said it very well...:thumb:
 

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If most of your mates all ride large bikes and you ride together a lot then it makes sense to ride what they ride. Lets face it we all get a little, little bit competative out there. If you ride a smaller bike and live miles from the twisties it's a PITA getting there and because of their nature they can hold you up in the good bits anyway. So the whole thing gets out of sync.

On the other hand if you like to ride solo then ride what you like, just ride it fast.


:)
 

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Ok chaos nice pics

Let me put it like this. The small bikes are all fun and games ;)

I road a Yamaha RD400 Daytona Special plenty of times. One of my friends owned one and in fact I told him to get it. I mess around with that for a few years but it was way too small. It toped out at 120MPH about and I would smoke him on my 94 F2 back then any day street or track what ever. We also switched bikes a few times and then he smoked me. So it was not the rider but the bike.

If by any chance you think that you will even stand a chance to keep up to me on my ZX-7RR let alone pass me with your 400 you're smoking crack :twofinger

Believe my you don’t stand a chance against even a 600 let alone a 1,000 because you just don't have the power to keep up. I don’t know who the hell you won against ridding a 600 750 or 1,000 but they must really sucked because any good rider would have used their power advantage and won.

To give you a comparison with cars. Take a Mini Cooper vs. a Corvette Z06 with two equivalent drivers. Who do you think will win on any road or track? I think we all know the answer that the corvette will smoke the Mini Cooper in every comparison.

You can take the 250 GP bike Vs a Moto GP bike. Come on we all know that the bigger more powerful Moto GP bike will win in every track. This is a fact look at the lap times for any track.

I'm not saying that you’re a bad rider you’re probably very good. But if you ever ride some bigger bikes you will see that the new cutting edge technology and the power of the modern sport bikes are just unbelievable.

A small bike is good to learn on and then move up to the bigger bike. That is the only way to ever improve your skill :2cents:
 

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Welp, I've seen riders on TZ 250's Smoke others on 1k's..on the track...sure the 250 gets left behind on the straights, but it doesn't take any skill to ride fast in a straight line...I also had a Daytona RD400..fitted with a Toomey stage III kit...was hard to keep the front wheel down..:D
 
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