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Discussion Starter #1

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How will it get anything resembling a decent powerband?
 

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Strength and Honor
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RD350 ? Im in baby....how will it pass emissions?
It wouldn't have to pass emissions if it were an off-road (aka track-only) vehicle, would it?
 

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It wouldn't have to pass emissions if it were an off-road (aka track-only) vehicle, would it?
I don't think so. I doubt if the Honda NSR had to pass anything.

That Yamaha just looks like a bike you could have all kinds of fun on.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
so you wouldnt be able to license it ?

now to hijack my own thread :

Im thinkin 1. holy war and take some oil

2. start shootin high ranking arabs

3. start shootin high ranking oil company execs

4. all of the above


this is gonna destroy our economy
 

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Discussion Starter #8
ok......but Im still shootin some oil execs...I'll just wound em
 

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Strength and Honor
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Oil isn't the answer and only pain will cause that realization :2cents:
 

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Oil isn't the answer and only pain will cause that realization :2cents:
I think we need to keep developing alternative sources. But in the meantime, I don't see how it could hurt to use the oil we are sitting on and drive the cost down.

What are your thoughts on the solution?
 

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Strength and Honor
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I think we need to keep developing alternative sources. But in the meantime, I don't see how it could hurt to use the oil we are sitting on and drive the cost down.

What are your thoughts on the solution?
That's a fantasy. There is woefully insufficient "easy" or even "medium difficulty" oil on the North American continent to have any significant effect on market value. Nevermind that it'd take a decade to even get the to market.

The ideal solution will be a Manhattan-style project focusing on alternative energy. Since that won't happen we'll go through a lot more pain and development will continue at a crawl.
 

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I'm sorry the "We need to invent something" is not a plan. There is absolutely no guarantee that even a mega manhattan style project will result in anything at all.
The incentive for new tech is there, the payoff is there. The fact that nothing is coming shows just how difficult it is. Even if a solution got invented today, it will take decades to implement.
 

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I'm sorry the "We need to invent something" is not a plan. There is absolutely no guarantee that even a mega manhattan style project will result in anything at all.
The incentive for new tech is there, the payoff is there. The fact that nothing is coming shows just how difficult it is. Even if a solution got invented today, it will take decades to implement.

True that. in fact there's already a handful of possible solutions, and they're trying to implement some of them already, just look around. But finding which one is the most environmentally friendly while still being exteremely producable, affordable, and well.. high performing.. that's a little harder to do.
 

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I think Hybrids are doing a decent job at the moment, though their reliability is not totally clear given their recent introduction. I'm not a fan of electric-only vehicles because their application is too limited. Granted they're fine for local commutes, but my travels are way too spontaneous. I'd run out of juice on the side of the road and it's not like you can run and get a couple gallons of gas to limp to the nearest station. I don't even know if you could "jump" them, since the power needed to charge them would probably be too much of a load for a regular alternator (I could be totally wrong, Vash probably knows the answer to that).

I'm sure there's something out there that can get us off of oil, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.
 

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not to rechange the subject, but have you guys ever rode a snowmobile?
their motors are amazing! some of the twostrokes claim to have better emmissions than a four stroke. there's a 1000cc twostroke thatmakes well over 200hp stock!
 

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I've rode a snowmobile before, but I think that story belongs in a humor section, not a debate about eco-friendly solutions.
 

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To elaborate:
There is a huge difference between the Manhattan project and the current problem. In the former, it was a matter of building a really complicated wiggit. A bunch of people came together, figured it out and built one. Cost wasnt really a problem, the technology was. In the current issue, the problem is the opposite. We can build an electric car that has 500 mile range, or a car that runs on some strange exotic fuel, or gets 100mpg. What we cannot do, is make this car affordable. What good is a 100mpg car if it costs over a million? The problem is seen to a lesser degree in hybrids, where the added cost doesnt really justify the gas savings (so we call it the green premium).
The thing is, in current manufacturing practices, economies of scale are always the trump card. For example, neither cable nor phone lines are in any way ideal for building a broadband network, but its an infrastructure that is already in place, so the cost of operating this imperfect systems are so cheap, that the prohibit a better system from being competitive price wise. Likewise, even if we build a great hydrogen car, the added cost of an infrastructure will make this system non competitive. We have an electrical infrastructure in place (which will need some upgrading) and we have a gasoline distribution network in place (which will need upgrading to handle ethanol or something else that is liquid). Battery technology isn't there yet, and all the legislation in the world isn't going to help. Gasoline contains 12Killowatt-hour / Kg. We use about a 25% of that. Lithium ion batteries contain about 150 watt hour/kg. Even if we could use the power in them at 100% efficiency (not possible) they would still need to hold 25 times more energy per unit mass to be competitive with gasoline. In addition, they cost about $1,000/kw-hour, also that number can be reduced thru greater quantities.

Here are some technologies that show promise
1. Hydraulic hybrids. Same as a standard hybrid, but uses hydraulic motors and accumulators to store and use energy. Accumulators get up to 500kw-hr/kg energy storage capacity. If used in a series hybrid, significant weight savings can be seen from getting rid of the transmission. Hydraulic motors and compressors are small, light, and simple to build and maintain. Best of all, the technology is mature, it has been around for decades, and doesn't need any breakthroughs. I'm contemplating converting my own truck to that once I'm done with it.
2. algae ethanol. Algae has an exponantial growth rate, meaning you can grow it much faster than you can corn, and you dont need to use up valuable crop land. Several companies are working on this concept.
2. Bacterial ethanol. GM recently bought out this technology. Organic trash get burned in a chamber, this reaction being self sustaining (does not need energy). The exhausts are pumped into a bacterial chamber, where specially modified bacteria converts the gas to ethanol and water vapor. A simple stack seperates the two.
3. Bacterial oil. Oil is very similar molecularly to a fatty acid produced by some strains of e. coli. A genetically modified strand of e. coli has been designed that eats organic trash and produces oil that is ready to be refined and pumped. We get to keep our existing infrastructure.
The last three methods are all carbon neutral (not that I care, but some might) because they suck as much CO2 out of the oxygen as the put into the fuel.
There is a great deal of uncertainty in the market. Any technology has to be scaled up to a great scale to achieve competitive costs. This requires a very large investment, if the technology can even be scaled up. Since only one technology is going to rule the day, investment in the wrong technology is a loss.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I sense an intellectual debate about to break out, and since a battle of wits sees me unarmed, I shall retreat to my lazy boy and think deep thoughts :rolleyes:
 

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I sense an intellectual debate about to break out, and since a battle of wits sees me unarmed, I shall retreat to my lazy boy and think deep thoughts :rolleyes:

No no.. that's not the way it works around here. You are just supposed to find a way to make false statements sound fact-based. :D

That's what the rest of us do. Vash is the only one we could classify as a human database. ;)
 
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