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Discussion Starter #1
It amazes me how many threads I see about "What should my first bike be" or "Is a 600 Sportbike too fast to start on?" - I also get annoyed at the threads that say you will most likely go down on your first bike. It seems that a lot of people that ride sportbikes (not trying to stereotype) have no business being on one. It is easy to differentiate between the two just by reading some of the threads. I have the utmost respect for people that respect their bikes and the power they contain. And I have no problem with people that learn from their mistakes. Any time you try to push yourself, you may end up on the ground, and sometimes it is the only way to know your limits. However, telling someone that a 600 is too much for them to start on if they have never rode a motorcycle is total bullshit. I could not agree more in some cases. I can pick a punk ass kid out on a sport bike that has never had any experience what so ever on anything else that has no idea how to use the power of his bike, or the danger of it. This kid should learn on something else first and have some respect for what is under his ass.

I can see riders also going down on their first bike, simply because they are not qualified to ride. Anybody that has ridden dirtbikes, three wheelers, or four wheelers in the past and adjusted to them well should have no problem riding a street bike. But too many idiots just jump on a sportbike and think they can ride them because they want to pose and look cool.

I bought my first street bike about two months ago - I have put close to 3000 miles on it (thanks to my truck being down!). It is a 97 CBR 600. I thought it would be the right bike for 'me' to learn on. When I went to buy it, I had a friend ride it home for me, and we went out to a parking lot and rode around on it. After about an hour, I already felt pretty comfortable on it. I then started riding it around the streets after I got my permit. After about 300 miles, I was really comfortable on it. Now after about 3000, I want a 929rr. Yes, a 600 is plenty fast - faster than hell, but I have got used to the power and I respect it. I grew up with dirtbikes, three wheelers, and four wheelers. I got into three and four wheelers pretty heavily and learned at an early age the consequences of riding above my ability and not respecting the reponsiveness of a two stroke engine =) (250r Three wheeler - still miss it!). Anybody who has ridden a cr 250 or a banshee is not going to wow at the power of a 600 sportbike (It is going to feel a little different, but still common to them). Hell a Banshee that has been ported, polished and bored with drag pipes could run with a stock CBR up to 80 mph.

I guess my point is that your first street bike is only relevant to 'you' - not to what everyone else blows up your ass that has never respected power until they crashed on their sport bike - Get what YOU want, as long as you respect power and know the dangers of it.

And above anything else, **** the posers in here. You can pick them out - they have a cool bike but have no experience on anything else, but their sportbike (and yes, that is stupid) - They like to brag about wheelies (some with women on the back) and going fast - everyone likes to wheelie or go fast every now and then - but the ones who brag about it are the ones who most likely bought their first bike and laid it down within the first 500 miles and now think they are a great rider.

I have learned a lot in these forums. There are a lot of people in here that are useful and friendly, just wanted to vent about a few of the post I have read.

Sorry for the long read.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Re: Re: 1st bike depends more on just 'size' and model

Pete said:


Don't worry, I skipped most of it. :D

Not a problem Pete(r) :D
 

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Well, if you've only got 3K mi under your belt and want a 929, my opinion is you still don't know jack. I'm one that posts the "Fire and Brimstone". I don't wheelie (except occassional power wheelie), don't cruz' the strip, don't pick up girls (my wife would kill me). I've been riding since I was 10 years old. 50's, 70's, 125's, 250's, 350's, two stroke and 4 stroke, and yes, I've been on a Banshee.

I've fallen dozens (probably hundreds) of times in the dirt. And I've been down more than once on the street.

I've helped friends start riding and helped many pick their bikes. I've also seen a few friends (more than a couple) go down. I am only trying to point out to the new riders that if you sport ride on the street, chances are you will go down. I think that as a responsible older rider, we should point out the very real danger of going fast to the newcomers of the sport.

I will restate my position again, if you ride fast, be prepared to go down. I will say with that piece of knowlege, the smart thing to do is be dressed for it, wear your leathers!

BTW, my first off-road excursion took place at around 8K mi. Get back to me then.

Sorry, but I can be as long winded as you...just joking!
 

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I have to respectfully disagree with you regarding your statement about how telling a person who has never ridden a motorcycle that a 600 is too much for them to start on is bull****.

I'm not saying that it can't be done, but with no experience riding bikes, especially sportbikes, a normal person simply does not have the skills. It is certainly possible to learn on a 600 or even a larger bike but a smaller bike is much more forgiving with mistakes. I think one of the most important skills a rider must develop is throttle control. If you're riding a smaller bike and get a little nervous in a turn and don't maintain proper throttle control, the consequences will probably not be as severe as if you were on a 600 or higher because you don't have as much power. It's not a matter of respecting the bike or knowing your limits, it's a matter of skill development.

I'm not trying to offend you or anything. You may enjoy many years of accident free riding on the street and I hope you do. All I am saying is that I don't see a downside with starting small and working your way up when you you're ready.
 

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oh

downsides to starting with a small one in money man. the only bike ive ever riden has been my friends 01 r6. ive riden it like four or five times and feel pretty comfortable. all im planning on spending on a bike is $4k. im looking at f3s and ~95 zx6rs. im not about to buy a 250 ninja just to turn around and sell it in a month. if you think im a stupid kid whos going to kill himself, ok, we will see. im tired of all the "ive been riding for 50 years" boyscouts. just because it took you that long to get comfortable with a bike, doesnt mean it that way with everyone. im not backing up what the first thread said either. he said his experience on 3 and 4 wheelers helped him ride a sportbike (which i dont understand at all).

ok, bring on the comments...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
First of all, I agree with a lot of what has been said and replied to in my post. I just think that some people are more capable of starting off with a high performance bike than others. It is not to knock on the people that are timid of the power and would rather get something smaller. I think that is the right choice. But, if I would have bought something smaller for my first street bike, I would have been very disappointed. To tell me I don't know jack is the exact type of post I am talking about. You don't know how well I adapted, or how well i didn't. Each person is born differently. A highly coordinated person is going to adapt a lot easier to the required skills to ride a sport bike. That is all I am saying. And yes, I think I could have learned on a 929RR - Laugh all you want. It is just past experience on other things, and I adapted well. Yes, a lot more power, but I am not an idiot who is going to push my limits until I am ready. I too, have been down in the dirt over 100 times. And each time you get up, you learn something new. I tend to not push things like I did when I was younger. I am older, wiser, and above all else, the pavement is not forgiving. I will never ever be able to ride my CBR to its limits, and god forbid a 929, but when I get up in 4th gear on my 600, I would rather be on a 929, not for breaking the sound barrier, but for roll on power. I was never comparing three wheelers or four wheelers to street bikes. Read again if you have to. They are worlds different, and so are dirt bikes for that matter. But one thing that stays the same is throttle control. And the power is somewhat similar, All of them can get out of hand in a hurry. I just caught on quick because the power was something I was somewhat used to. I caught on quick to cornering as well. - There are more similarities in throttle control that in effect control everything else, and I just think my past was beneficial to my learning. I am just being honest, not trying to flame, not trying to disrespect anyone. It takes some longer than others. For those who don't understand the difference between two stroke and four stroke (which, I am sure some people in these forums have never ridden a two stroke), you would not understand the similarities in power between something of 250cc's and 600cc's. I don't find it impressive that someone has been riding for 500 years. Everyone is different. A football player does not have to be in the league for 12 years before he has a 100 yard game. Some adapt better, some don't. Who cares???? - It is all about how you handle things, and what feels comfortable to you, and having fun.
 

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mgering said:
First of all, I agree with a lot of what has been said and replied to in my post. I just think that some people are more capable of starting off with a high performance bike than others. It is not to knock on the people that are timid of the power and would rather get something smaller. I think that is the right choice. But, if I would have bought something smaller for my first street bike, I would have been very disappointed. To tell me I don't know jack is the exact type of post I am talking about. You don't know how well I adapted, or how well i didn't. Each person is born differently. A highly coordinated person is going to adapt a lot easier to the required skills to ride a sport bike. That is all I am saying. And yes, I think I could have learned on a 929RR - Laugh all you want. It is just past experience on other things, and I adapted well. Yes, a lot more power, but I am not an idiot who is going to push my limits until I am ready. I too, have been down in the dirt over 100 times. And each time you get up, you learn something new. I tend to not push things like I did when I was younger. I am older, wiser, and above all else, the pavement is not forgiving. I will never ever be able to ride my CBR to its limits, and god forbid a 929, but when I get up in 4th gear on my 600, I would rather be on a 929, not for breaking the sound barrier, but for roll on power. I was never comparing three wheelers or four wheelers to street bikes. Read again if you have to. They are worlds different, and so are dirt bikes for that matter. But one thing that stays the same is throttle control. And the power is somewhat similar, All of them can get out of hand in a hurry. I just caught on quick because the power was something I was somewhat used to. I caught on quick to cornering as well. - There are more similarities in throttle control that in effect control everything else, and I just think my past was beneficial to my learning. I am just being honest, not trying to flame, not trying to disrespect anyone. It takes some longer than others. For those who don't understand the difference between two stroke and four stroke (which, I am sure some people in these forums have never ridden a two stroke), you would not understand the similarities in power between something of 250cc's and 600cc's. I don't find it impressive that someone has been riding for 500 years. Everyone is different. A football player does not have to be in the league for 12 years before he has a 100 yard game. Some adapt better, some don't. Who cares???? - It is all about how you handle things, and what feels comfortable to you, and having fun.
amen.
 

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Re: oh

dash said:
downsides to starting with a small one in money man. the only bike ive ever riden has been my friends 01 r6. ive riden it like four or five times and feel pretty comfortable. all im planning on spending on a bike is $4k. im looking at f3s and ~95 zx6rs. im not about to buy a 250 ninja just to turn around and sell it in a month. if you think im a stupid kid whos going to kill himself, ok, we will see. im tired of all the "ive been riding for 50 years" boyscouts. just because it took you that long to get comfortable with a bike, doesnt mean it that way with everyone. im not backing up what the first thread said either. he said his experience on 3 and 4 wheelers helped him ride a sportbike (which i dont understand at all).

ok, bring on the comments...
Money?? When I said I didn't see a downside with starting small I was talking about safety and skill development, not money. If you can't see that, you're already behind.

Also, didn't I say in my post that it IS possible to start out on a 600 or larger bike? I was just giving my opinion based on my experiences (and the experiences of others) with people that have no riding experience. I didn't mention anything about age, the same applies to a person no matter how old they are, so don't get senstive about your age.

You're going to do what you want but I will make a suggestion. Take that $4k, buy a used EX for $2500 and spend the rest on gear, YOU WILL NEED IT.

As I told mgering, I honestly hope you have many years of accident free riding, but you would do well to start small, take the MSF course and any other you can find, and move up when you have developed good skills. Whether you want to believe it or not, riding a friend's new r6 four or five times is not the best way to go about it.

Oh...and by the way, you are not in the same situation as mgering who seems to have had plenty of riding time in the dirt and I'm sure is doing fine on that CBR.
 

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Experience with bikes is one thing. Experience riding in traffic is a whole different ball game. I've been riding for 15 years and many miles. So far ALL of my accidents have involved cages. Most of my wrecks, and certainly my most serious ones so far, happened in the first 2-3 years of riding. With 3,000 miles you're still a newbie in my book. I'm not saying you can't handle your machine, just trying to clarify that you're really not that experienced yet. If you plan to ride long term you can pretty much give yourself a 99.9% guarantee that you WILL go down some time. Your experience, knowledge, ability, safety gear and (unfortunately) luck will determine the frequency and severity of these incidents. The type of bike you have plays a role as well. An R1 is simply a lot more capable of putting you into a dire situation than an SV650. You can throw a pilot with 20 hours flight time into an F-18 and he might be careful and skillful enough to not crash it, but I sure as hell wouldn't bet money on that. Part of riding responsibly is pacing and controlling yourself. Well, that should be applied to your motorcyle purchases as well. Every teenager I see that buys a GSXR1000 as their first street bike feels quite confident they can handle it. They just wonder why some local old geezer on a 1960's BMW twin smokes them in the twisties. ;)

Look at how few of the older liter bikes are still around. Hell, it's rare for me to see any '98-'99 R1's around already. Even the experienced riders are having a hard time keeping them on two wheels. I know that my bike is way ahead of my riding skills and that I could very well end up as road-pizza every time throw a leg over it...but that's how you can tell the wise riders from the inexperienced ones. We know our place. Nobody's ever perfect but, the longer you ride, the better you understand your own limits. That's the key.
 

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OK, let me rephrase. You have not learned it all in 3K mi yet. No offense is meant with that statement. Sure, everyone is different. Sure, some have a natural talent. My next statement will go back a long time, and it is not meant to brag (there's plenty of ego on this site). All of my friends that were helping me learn to ride fast (2 raced on the track) said they had never seen anyone so quick with so few miles under my belt. Within one year, I could pass 900 ninjas with my VF500 when it was real tight. Did it help me from falling? No, I just kept putting the bar higher until I crossed the line.

Your statement about falling as much as me is cool, you have dirt experience which will definately help. But what makes you think that your falling days are over? What makes you think the street is different from the dirt? This isn't a cut, it's just that you can't push to 100% on the street and think nothing will happen. These days I only go to 75% and try to be safer. Below could be some possible (all these have happened to me!) scenarios.

Go around a 55mph corner and have you centerstand (remember those?) dig in and jack your back wheel over about 2 feet.

Tag another bike in a corner(several times).

Come up on a slower rider by about 30mph entering a corner, brake too late and tag his back wheel (luckily neither went down)

Go over something like a raised railroad track and experience a tank slapper (my first one)

Have a tire go flat at speed.

Have a blue haired cage driver pull out, see you, get scared and stop and you do your first stoppie (not a common practice in the 80's and not planned) instead of diving thru her drivers window!

Hit dirt or gravel in a corner and either push the front some or have the rear step out.

AND generally staying out of the way of cages, animals, and bicycle riders.

All of this is moot. If you are just going to ride normally, most of the above will never happen to you. In some other forums, I have made the same statement about falling but I also added words like "sport riding", "fast riding", or "racing". However, if you plan on going fast and racing your buddies (I don't mean whacking the throttle open on a straight) I'll say it again for the newer riders. Wear your leathers, it will hurt a LOT LESS! Damn! I'm long winded!

PS I know I won't remember you a year from now, but it would be an interesting new forum to tell us your experiences and close calls after you have about 10K or 1 year under your belt. And I wish you luck. BTW, if you want to go fast and can afford it, try going to a track. It's a whole different world.
 

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mgering,
gotta agree with the rest. If you have had dirtbike experiance you should reflect and realize how silly your statement about 3000 miles in two months is.
20,000+ miles and 3 years later, I am still a scrub (I didn't ride for a year due to no bike). Faster than some on the street but slower than most on the track. Except that fat guy on the F4 (he knows who he is) and the old dude on the 7R. I can take both of them without trying. ;)

You are correct about some can handle a 600cc starter bike. I had a 92 F2 in 97, and I never dropped it. That was pure luck. I should of been a stain on the front of a tow truck in Va Beach. If someone knows Va Beach area, it was the long, seperated highway, canopy road that takes a right and turns south to follow the shoreline at the beach.

I am sure the fag who showed me how to ride would love to take credit for teaching me proper-like, but he is truely clueless. Blind leading the blind.

But the overall agreement is to recommend something managable, and to the average person, over the internet without knowing them beforehand and their personality, mindset, and previous experiance, etc etc a 500cc (or a 650cc) bike is a safe bike, that most feel comfortable recommending.
 

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Just a sideways guess but does KC even have any twisty roads? Why own a sportbike in the plains anyway. Chances are he almost never has to turn that thing, so of course hes less likely to crash.:rolleyes:
 

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waynofzr said:
Below could be some possible (all these have happened to me!) scenarios.

Tag another bike in a corner(several times).

Come up on a slower rider by about 30mph entering a corner, brake too late and tag his back wheel (luckily neither went down)

I will not ride with waynofzr:eek:
I will not ride with waynofzr:eek:
I will not ride with waynofzr:eek:
I will not ride with waynofzr:eek:
I will not ride with waynofzr:eek:
I will not ride with waynofzr:eek:
I will not ride with waynofzr:eek:
I will not ride with waynofzr:eek:
I will not ride with waynofzr:eek:
I will not ride with waynofzr:eek:

Man, you scare me.
 

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lucifer

hey lucifer, the side thignie says youre from watkinsville, you didnt happen to go to that rodeo bullriding thing last weekend did you? if not did you know about it? just wondering
 

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No excuses for my actions, other than being young, stupid and invincible!

I was just trying to point out what can happen if you push too hard...and yes, I was guilty.

The really insane thing is, most of my friends back then were the same way! Most have quit riding. BTW, none of my riding buddies have been killed.
 

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These type of threads piss me off, I never want to respond, but in the end I end up responding...

I do agree with starting small... I started on a 250, and that was enought for me for 7 years, because I love riding just for the fun of it, not for the power and fast speeds...

waynofzr, I can agree with alot of what you said, you are older then most of us and relize that you are not invincible, and plus you rode all of them years on a dirt bike (and other off road machines) but why did you waist you money and buy a 600, when you could just go out and buy a 929rr you have more exp with off road riding the most of us have on the streets... I dont know (because I never rode a dirt bike) but I am told the you learn a hole lot more on a dirt bike: How to fall, turn (on gravel), and just all around maneuverability on a bike...

A main excuse of everyone is money, but people go out and buy a 600 (much more then a 250 or 500) and then a month later want a 1000CC or above what is wrong with the 600 or why not buy a 250 (cheaper) ride it a season the buy your 1000 the would seem cheaper to me!!!

When I tell people to start on a smaller bike, I am telling the ones that the only thing with 2 wheels that they were ever on is a PEDAL BIKE!!!

but what realy pisses me off is the 16-18 year olds (that never rode) that have the brand new 600 and 1000 that there MOMMY AND DADDY bought them for a senior present :eek: Atleast MOMMY AND DADDY cared enough to buy them the leathers, boots, gloves, and helemt, because they are GOING TO NEED THEM... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Now I am off ny soap box :)
 

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If you read between the lines of these comments (or as much as you can without your eyes glazing over :p ) I think you'll see that you mostly agree with each other without saying as much. "Life experience" counts as much as "riding experience" when choosing a first bike. I came to motorcycles in my 30s, but I had taken enough knocks in life to know that I was capable of handling the F3 as my first bike because I understood the ramifications of doing foolish things. I think most 18 or 21 year-olds lack perspective, and the invincibility shine has not worn off them yet. They are candidates for starting small and getting larger bikes as they gain experience.

Just $.02 from an old fool!
 

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Some day in real life I'll tell you guys and gals what I used to do for fun in my invincible days from 16-23 or so... I won't post it here for obvious reasons.
Although i have been tempted lately to start a "post the craziest mc or non mc thing you have ever done" thread.
 
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