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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
fzr4/600 owners i just got my machined down f2 rear wheel for the 400.

i'm still working on brake assembly ideas. some guys are running stock calipers on the f2 rotor, which is ideal, but i hear cbr600f1 and early cr125 caliper are easier. we'll see.

anyway, this is part of a small series i plan to do here on the conversion. the next installment will take awhile, i have buy and f2 sprocket, studs for the sprocket, and bolts, and check the clearance for my 88 swingarm, which does look wider than the 90 deltabox (not sure for 600 guys).

i didn't do the machining work to the f2 rear wheel myself, so i don't know ease of performing the machine work.

however, http://www.webspan.net/~psalonis/400faq.htm has all of the details for f2/3 wheels and old gsxr wheels.

here's the info--

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> that the only real advantage to installing a 17" wheel is to take advantage of the latest generation of racing rubber.

Contributed by Chris Eklund:

"I currently run Honda CBR600F2 (17x4.50) and F3 (17x5.00) rear wheels on my race bike. My street project FZR600 street fighter will be using a GSXR (17x4.50) rear wheel.

To use the F2/F3 wheels, this is what I had done. Any competent machinist could do this, or they may have a better idea. This is how my guy did it:

First thing is I took Lester a stock wheel complete with spacers, axle, cush drive, brake arm, etc., a spare 400 box-section swing arm and a complete F2 rear wheel. This way he could measure everything from the stock wheel.

He removed the sprocket studs from the cush drive. (Note: Honda uses locking agent that is _tough_! Be sure to heat the studs when you pull them.) The outer bearing surface was machined down. This eliminated the rubber bearing seal, so a single sided waterproof sealed bearing of the Honda OEM size was used. The sprocket surface was also machined to move the sprocket inward. (Note: If you have '90 Deltabox swing arm, the studs need to be shortened and the nuts ground down to clear the swing arm. I'm not sure if this step is necessary on a '88-89 box section arm since they have more clearance. I ground about 2-3mm off the nuts, which was basically the locking portion of it, so I now have mine safety wired. Makes rear sprocket changes time consuming, but it won't come off and I usually know what gearing I'm going to run at what track beforehand. If you can get some low profile lock nuts, that would work well. Ideally, I'd have a spare cush drive modified.

New wheel spacers were machined from steel and have a sleeve for adapting the small FZR axle to the larger F2 bearing. This way the spacers are captive and won't fall out. (Note: Another option is to use the F2/F3 axle. The stock F2 axle will fit in the '90 swing arm. All you'd have to do is drill out the holes in the v-blocks. The F2/F3 axle is about 2mm larger and hollow.

For the brake, Honda uses a floating caliper mounting system as opposed to the Yamaha's fixed caliper. I use a Hurricane 2-piston caliper, but plan to use a F2 single piston one soon. A CR125/250/500 rear caliper might be another option. I've seen a CR125 caliper used on an F2 rim on Simon Forder's EX500.

The large hub on the F2/F3 wheels won't allow an opposed piston caliper go all the way over the rotor. The GSXR wheel can be used with the FZR600 hanger and stock 400/600 caliper or you could get the GSXR rotor turned down the same diameter as the stock 400 rotor. I think the F2/F3 wheels are lighter than the GSXR, but I can't guarantee that. I will be weighing items this winter ('97-'98) and will have the FAQ updated when I do.

The GSXR wheel requires the same type of work, but is simpler for a few reasons. The cush drive uses bolts to secure the sprocket so when you remove the sprocket, the bolts fall out, unlike the studs on the Honda. These bolts are of a smaller diameter than the Honda studs and already uses low profile locking nuts. And as I mentioned above, the brake situation is easier to deal with. Plus it's a three-spoke wheel and matches the stock front wheel. GSXR rims may be getting hard to find since they were only used on '88-89 GSXR750's and '89 GSXR1100's.

Here are GSXR dimensions and directions from Nolan Ballew:

"Remove .345 from sprocket carrier where sprocket sits.
Remove .305 from sprocket carrier where stock bearing seal sits.
Replace bearing with sealed bearing type but same size.
On sprocket side use stock spacer plus 25mm O.D. 17mm I.D. by 1.73 inch spacer that slips into carrier.
Use stock brake arm and .510 spacer with 17mm I.D./ O.D. of this spacer is non critical. this spacer goes between brake arm and wheel bearing like stock one.
The stock Suzuki disc can be cut down to the same O.D. and width as 400. The O.D. with have cut thru holes or you can make a disc. The stock disc cannot be adapted.
Stock caliper needs bottom left surface filed down about .025 to provide clearance for larger hub of GSX-R-r wheel.
A 600fzr caliper bracket can be used with the stock Suzuki disc but then you cannot easily switch from a stock wheel to the Suzuki wheel if you have 18 inch rains on stock wheels (Bridgestone).
I don't have a number for the 600 caliper bracket but once the other side is done the measurement should not be too difficult."

I will be measuring my current rim set ups and will soon update this FAQ with the dimensions you will need for modifying a Honda F2/F3 rear rims to fit in the 400 (or 600). TZ250 rims have been used and apparently only require new spacers being made (according to Motorcyclist article 9/90.) TZ rims wider than 5.00 may require moving the chain out to clear the tire.

As recommended by Sam Flemming of the Army of Darkness, Wheels without cush drives should be avoided (i.e. older Performance Machine wheels.) The shock of each power pulse will take it's toll on the 400's not too terribly tough transmission and clutch.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

and that's how you get wide rubber on an fzr.

i will also run a cost table for everyone once i start putting it together.



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Tony

the views and opinions expressed by tony (cbrf2boy) are the ramblings of a total idiot. sbw.com, it's administrators, moderators, and members don't necessarily agree with and are not responsible for anything this idiot has to say.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
to ride a 400 is to understand. not to mention, my bike has less than 3000 into it (including the 2200 purchase price). just a thought.

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Tony

the views and opinions expressed by tony (cbrf2boy) are the ramblings of a total idiot. sbw.com, it's administrators, moderators, and members don't necessarily agree with and are not responsible for anything this idiot has to say.
 

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Tony PLEASE keep me posted on this, as of today my FZR is going into my brothers garage to be fixed up a bit (if you have/know of someone with a oil pan for the fizzer let me know) and was thinking of doing the rear end switch myself. I was going to get a newer bike but I am what you would call poor (student) so I might just have to tweek the hell out of the FZR. I was also thinking of going for the FZR 400 frame over the winter but I'm not sure of the cost of parts (laber is not an issue, thanks bro).
So if you have any good info let me know by the Fourm or just email me.
Rock on
Ride on
Fizzman (Adrian)

PS to R6Racer, I'm quite sure a well done FZR 661/400 would give an R6 a good run, and maybe for less money :) Plus NOTHING beats a sleeper in my book :D


------------------
Mu toys,

84VF500F (RIP)
Ibanez RG
Ibanez RX
Yamaha acoustic
JB player acoustic

[This message has been edited by Fizzman (edited July 01, 2000).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
fizz,

i will continue (i just want it to be perfect before i add new pieces). fzr400 frames general go for 300-1000 bucks depending on how complete (swingarm (deltabox or box-section), subframe, etc.). i just saw one for $350 or so.

i'd suggest joing the fzr400 mailing list, lots of info and parts. you can sign up at www.roadracers.com or egroups.com (which is the current provider, just switched from list bot).

on the egroups.com page, jason clay (one of the few true 400 gurus) has pics of his 560 motor (internals).

the link above (bare bones racing's 400 faq) also talks about the 600 swap, which is what you'd be doing by buying a 400 frame.

as for the cost of this stuff. i have 250 in the wheel and tire so far (i bought it already done, the way to go, i still need a sprocket and studs for the cush). figure the frame'll cost you 500 or so. and if you add some r1 bodywork (not the airtech crap) you'll have a sweet bike for $1500.

the best part is you do it yourself, save some money and if you're not racing it, you can sell your stock stuff to make up some costs.

as for an fzr400/661 giving an r6 a run for its money, it's all rider. until you're an expert-level roadracer, the machine doesn't really matter.

the only reason i'm doing the swap is because of tire availability. i don't want to have the last 18" rear when bridgestone stops making 18" tires.

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Tony

the views and opinions expressed by tony (cbrf2boy) are the ramblings of a total idiot. sbw.com, it's administrators, moderators, and members don't necessarily agree with and are not responsible for anything this idiot has to say.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cbrf2boy:


the only reason i'm doing the swap is because of tire availability. i don't want to have the last 18" rear when bridgestone stops making 18" tires.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Man I hear ya on that took me a MONTH to get a damn tire last time (and I need another one right now).
Doesnt a TZ250 wheel slap right on the FZR? (save drilling the axle hole a bit)
Anyway Thanks for the links, I will check them out.

Rock on
Ride on
Fizzman

PS. If you need anything let me know, my brothers shop might have something lying around.


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Mu toys,

84VF500F (RIP)
Ibanez RG
Ibanez RX
Yamaha acoustic
JB player acoustic
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
i haven't talk to too many people about the tz wheels because they aren't as wildly available as the f2/3 wheels and years ago the gsxr wheels.

plus the cost difference.

if your brother has an studs and bolts for an f2 cush drive, e-mail with how much he wants.

also i need to get a 47-tooth 520 f2 sprocket and i'm hoping it's bolting up.

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Tony

the views and opinions expressed by tony (cbrf2boy) are the ramblings of a total idiot. sbw.com, it's administrators, moderators, and members don't necessarily agree with and are not responsible for anything this idiot has to say.
 

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I will ask Justin (That's the brother) tomorrow when I see him. Are you staying with the 400, or are you going to do the 600 swap?
Rock on
Ride on
Fizzman
PS. Are you /were you, on the CBR email list?
If so you might know my brother (CBRZRidin, Or Justin the smart-ass)
PPS. Who else makes a R1 body kit?
------------------
Mu toys,

84VF500F (RIP)
Ibanez RG
Ibanez RX
Yamaha acoustic
JB player acoustic

[This message has been edited by Fizzman (edited July 03, 2000).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
it's definitely not going to be a 600. if i find a good deal on a yzf600 motor, i may do a 560 motor. but it's pretty unlikey right now.

thanks fizz

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Tony

the views and opinions expressed by tony (cbrf2boy) are the ramblings of a total idiot. sbw.com, it's administrators, moderators, and members don't necessarily agree with and are not responsible for anything this idiot has to say.
 

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Tony,
Sorry, my brother didn't have what you were looking for :(
But if he does see anything you need he told me he would grab it.
Rock on
Ride on
Fizzman

PS. "it's definitely not going to be a 600" That line kinda made me wonder, have you seen bad things come of the 600/400 swap?

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Mu toys,

84VF500F (RIP)
Ibanez RG
Ibanez RX
Yamaha acoustic
JB player acoustic
 
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