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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,

I am new here and I wanted to get some feed back as to which bike you would all recommend. Out of the three I have driven an 05 zx-6r and an 03 gsx-r600. I just want to get some other opinions here on the board. As of right now I am leaning towards the 06 zx-6r. At first I wanted to get the 06 gsx-r but the kawi just got to me. Know I seen the r6 I am stuck with a decision on which bike would be nice. I read a few reiviews and got some opinions from a few of my buddies that ride and they all say. Get a duc, get the kawi, get an 05 gsx-r not the new one. So I would like to get a few more here on the boards. Thank you all in advance for the responses.

Regards,
Jay
 

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The '06 R6 is ugly in my opinion but the 17,500rpm redline would be fun. Seems like it would be a pain in traffic or just cruising around though with no power below 10k.

Just get a Honda...:twofinger



-M-
 

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welcome, i'd assume that you're new to riding seein' as you're posting on the new riders section. If that's the case, i'd suggest against buyin' somethin' brand spankin' new, cuz there is a rlly good chance that you'd drop your bike.

there's a bunch of posts here that suggest what types of bikes to get. also, if you haven't done so, make sure you take the MSF course, as well as have extra money left for good gear and insurance.

now w/ that said, if you're still interested in getting one of the three you've mentioned, i'd say it really depends on which bike feels more comfortable for you and stick w/ that, don't worry about the power stats and all that, you shouldn't even be using all of the bike's full potential anyway.
 

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oh, i just remembered hearing the new suzuki's frames are poorly welded together and are more so susceptible(sp?) to breaking in a crash. this is of course, just heresay on my part, but maybe someone else can chime in w/ their opnions?
 

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if you are a new rider i would suggest getting a smaller bike. if you are not or are still stuck on the 600 i would recomend go and ride a honda. iam kind of bias though hehehe.
 

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Whichever looks and feel best to you, but from a rideability standpoint, whichever of the two provides the most low-end and midrange torque. All of these bikes are stink fast on top-end, and offer slipper clutch, but they vary greatly in low and midrange, and for street duties, that's what important for the casual rider. Bike that is fast on the track isn't necessarily that fast on the street. Pick one out if you already know how to ride, but they won't be a good first bike by any means.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks all,

i know were you all are coming from. I personally want a new bike. Just the shear pleasure of knowing that I was the first owner. :D None the less. I am not really a big fan of the honda bikes. Very nice don't get me wrong here. I just prefer the other three. :p Also I heard it many times from a few of my buddies that a new bike is not a good begineer bike. But that is just me. I have a cousin that got a 999 duc for his first bike and a friend that got a 636 for his first bike. They are doing just fine. it is not like I am going to start stuntin and riding pass my personal limits out there on the streets. ;)
 

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LOL, would all the outstanding members of SBW that said those exact words and then wrecked their bikes please stand up!

:D
 

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slick1537 said:
let the flaming begin.
:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

ridin, no offense man, but that line on being able to handle and riding within your limits has been heard so many times on these boards. I understand some people you know have picked up ducatis and lived to tell the tale, but there are others you'll never hear from because they're dead, or worse, the ones that sell their bikes cuz they scared themselves shitless and now advocate that bikes are dangerous.

I agree that it takes a sensible mind to make sure you ride safely, but as you start to ride, its hard to understand what is within the scope of said limit. and it really isn't just about you keeping your speed down, factor in traffic and road hazards that can affect you. it is the lack of experience that gets most new riders into trouble, knowing what to do and what not to do and being able to react in a split second takes time.

I don't mean to preach, I'm still a noob myself but I have experienced a crash and a few near misses, not just because of other motorists on the road, but because I lack the experience to have put myself in a safer position.
 

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Vash said:
LOL, would all the outstanding members of SBW that said those exact words and then wrecked their bikes please stand up!

:D
::stands up:: :squid: :twofinger
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Lost Nomad said:
:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

ridin, no offense man, but that line on being able to handle and riding within your limits has been heard so many times on these boards. I understand some people you know have picked up ducatis and lived to tell the tale, but there are others you'll never hear from because they're dead, or worse, the ones that sell their bikes cuz they scared themselves shitless and now advocate that bikes are dangerous.

I agree that it takes a sensible mind to make sure you ride safely, but as you start to ride, its hard to understand what is within the scope of said limit. and it really isn't just about you keeping your speed down, factor in traffic and road hazards that can affect you. it is the lack of experience that gets most new riders into trouble, knowing what to do and what not to do and being able to react in a split second takes time.

I don't mean to preach, I'm still a noob myself but I have experienced a crash and a few near misses, not just because of other motorists on the road, but because I lack the experience to have put myself in a safer position.
I totally agree with you. I know I am a noob also to riding. One thing I can say is the other day when I went out riding I came to a near miss also. An expedition just pulled to the right of me when I was getting into the turning lane. Of course there are more than just riding at lower speeds.
 

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The thing is, controlling a bike is very counter intuative. Many situations require the exact opposite of the action you thought would be usefull.
For example, turning left is accomplished by pushing on the left bar. Does it make sence? not really.
Or, finding yourself too fast in a corner, you should lean and get on the gas. Not the brake, never the brake.
There are numerous little things that you will learn given time, and they will become second nature. However at first they are mind boggling.
So the whole line about staying within your abilities is abit of a myth. Yes you could be smart and wont wreck under perfect conditions. But you still dont have the reflexes, the muscle memory to deal with emergencies. Those situation when someone pulls out in front of you, or when all of a sudden one of the wheels looses traction, or whatever else, when you have to react and dont have time to think.
Race replicas present several dangers here. One, they are easy to go fast on. So if something does happen, chances are you might be going faster when it does. The second problem is they are not forgiving. Street bikes tend to react slower, evening out your inputs. Race rep's react instantly, and they dont have the wisdom to realize that you didnt mean to make that input. They dont stand up under braking, they slide out. They can loop from being not so gentle with the clutch. They send the rear sliding when you downshift. They are easy to flip with the front brake. The rear brake doesnt slow them down at all. In short, they take no prisoners.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Vash said:
The thing is, controlling a bike is very counter intuative. Many situations require the exact opposite of the action you thought would be usefull.
For example, turning left is accomplished by pushing on the left bar. Does it make sence? not really.
Or, finding yourself too fast in a corner, you should lean and get on the gas. Not the brake, never the brake.
There are numerous little things that you will learn given time, and they will become second nature. However at first they are mind boggling.
So the whole line about staying within your abilities is abit of a myth. Yes you could be smart and wont wreck under perfect conditions. But you still dont have the reflexes, the muscle memory to deal with emergencies. Those situation when someone pulls out in front of you, or when all of a sudden one of the wheels looses traction, or whatever else, when you have to react and dont have time to think.
Race replicas present several dangers here. One, they are easy to go fast on. So if something does happen, chances are you might be going faster when it does. The second problem is they are not forgiving. Street bikes tend to react slower, evening out your inputs. Race rep's react instantly, and they dont have the wisdom to realize that you didnt mean to make that input. They dont stand up under braking, they slide out. They can loop from being not so gentle with the clutch. They send the rear sliding when you downshift. They are easy to flip with the front brake. The rear brake doesnt slow them down at all. In short, they take no prisoners.
I catch your drift.
 

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One of the most common questions new sport bike riders have is, “What kind of sport bike should I get?” This question is asked so often that I have created a standardized response to it. Please keep in mind that these are the views and opinions of one person (albeit countless other also hold them) With that said, on we go…
Getting ANY modern 600cc sport bike for a first ride is a bad idea (far, far, far worse is a 1000cc bike for a first ride.) In fact, it may be nothing more than an expensive form of suicide. Here are a few reasons why.
1. Knowledge of Subject Matter
When anyone starts something new they find themselves at the most basic point of the “beginner’s mind”. This is to say that they are at the very start of the learning curve. They are not even aware of what it is that they don't know. A personal example of this is when I began Shotokan Karate. The first day of class I had no idea what an “inside-block” was, let alone how to do it with correct form, power, and consistency. After some time, and a lot of practice, I could only then realize how bad my form really was. Then, and only then, was I able to begin the process of improving it. I had to become knowledgeable that inside-blocks even existed before I was aware that I couldn’t do them correctly. It takes knowledge OF something in order to understand how that something works, functions, performs, etc. Now lets return to the world of motorcycles. A beginner has NO motorcycle experience. They are not even aware of the power, mistakes, handling, shifting, turning dynamics etc. of any bike, let alone a high performance sport bike. Not only do they lack the SKILL of how to ride a motorcycle, they also lack the knowledge of WHAT skills they need to learn. Acquiring those skills comes only with experience and learning from your mistakes. As one moves through the learning curve they begin to amass new information…they also make mistakes. A ton of them.
2. The Learning Curve
While learning to do something, you make mistakes. Without mistakes the learning process is impossible. A mistake on a sport bike can be fatal. The things new riders need to learn above all is smooth throttle control, proper speed, and how to lean going into turns. A 600cc bike can reach 60mph in about 3 to 5 seconds. A simple beginners mishap with that much power and torque can cost you your life (or a few limbs) before you even knew what happened. Grab a handful of throttle going into a turn and you may end up crossing that little yellow line on the road into on-coming traffic…**shudder**. Bikes that are more forgiving of mistakes are far safer (not to mention, more fun) to learn on.
Ask yourself this question; in which manner would you rather learn to walk on a circus high-wire A) with a 4x4 board that is 2 feet off the ground B) with a wire that is 20 feet off the ground? Most sensible people would choose “A”. The reason why is obvious. Unfortunately safety concerns with a first motorcycle aren’t as apparent as they are in the example above. However, the wrong choice of what equipment to learn on can be just as deadly, regardless of how safe, careful, and level-headed you intend to be.
3. “But I Will be Safe, Responsible, and Level-Headed While Learning".
Sorry, but this line of reasoning doesn’t cut it. To be safe you also need SKILL (throttle control, speed, leaning, etc). Skill comes ONLY with experience. To gain experience you must ride in real traffic, with real cars, and real dangers. Before that experience is developed, you are best suited with a bike that won’t severely punish you for minor mistakes. A cutting edge race bike is not one of these bikes.
Imagine someone saying, "I want to learn to juggle, but I’m going to start by learning with chainsaws. But don’t worry. I intend to go slow, be careful, stay level-headed, and respect the power of the chainsaws while I’m learning". Like the high-wire example, the proper route here isn’t hard to see. Be “careful” all you want, go as “slow” as you want, be as “cautious” as you want, be as “respectful” as you want…your still juggling chainsaws! The “level-headed” thing to do in this situation is NOT to start with chainsaws. Without a foundation in place of HOW to juggle there is only a small level of safety you can aspire towards. Plain and simple, it’s just better to learn juggling with tennis balls than it with chainsaws. The same holds true for learning to ride a motorcycle. Start with a solid foundation in the basics, and then move up. Many people say that “maturity” will help you be safe with motorcycles. They are correct. However, maturity has NOTHING to do with learning to ride a motorcycle. Maturity is what you SHOULD use when deciding what kind of bike to buy so that you may learn to ride a motorcycle safely.
4. “I Don’t Want a Bike I’ll Outgrow”
Please. Did your Momma put you in size 9 shoes at age 2? Get with the program. It is far better to maximize the performance of a smaller motorcycle and get “bored" with it than it is to mess-up your really fast bike (not mention messing yourself up) and not being able to ride at all. Power is nothing without control.
5. “I Don’t Want to Waste Money on a Bike I’ll Only Have for a Short Period of Time” (i.e. cost)
Smaller, used bikes have and retain good resale value. This is because other sane people will want them as learner bikes. You’ll prolly be able to sell a used learner bike for as much as you paid for it. If you can't afford to upgrade in a year or two, then you definitely can't afford to wreck the bike your dreaming about. At the very least, most new riders drop bikes going under 20MPH, when the bike is at its most unstable periods. If you drop your brand new bike, fresh off the showroom floor, while your learning (and you will), you've just broken a directional, perhaps a brake or clutch lever, cracked / scrapped the fairings ($300.00 each to replace), messed-up the engine casing, messed-up the bar ends, etc. It's better and cheaper to drop a used bike that you don’t care about than one you just spent $8,500 on. Fortunately, most of these types of accidents do not result in serious physical injury. It’s usually just a big dent in your pride and…
6. EGO.
Worried about looking like chump on a smaller bike? Well, your gonna look like the biggest idiot ever on your brand new, but messed-up bike after you’ve dropped it a few times. You’ll also look really dumb with a badass race bike that you stall 15 times at a red light before you can get into gear. Or even better, how about a new R6 that you can’t ride more than 15mph around a turn because you don’t know how to counter-steer correctly? Yeah, your gonna be really cool with that bike, huh? Any real rider would give you props for going about learning to ride the *correct* way (i.e. on a learner bike). If you’re stressed about impressing someone with a “cool” bike, or embarrassed about being on smaller bike, then your not “mature enough” to handle the responsibility of ANY motorcycle. Try a bicycle. After you've grow-up (“matured”), revisit the idea of something with an engine.
7. "Don’t Ask for Advice if You Don't to Hear a Real Answer".
A common pattern:
1. Newbie asks for advice on a 1st bike (Newbie wants to hear certain answers)
2. Experienced rider’s advise Newbie against a 600cc bike for a first ride (This is not what Newbie wanted to hear).
3. Newbie says and thinks, "Others mess up while learning, but that wont happen to me" (As if Newbie is invincible, holds superpowers, never makes mistakes, has a “level head”, or has a skill set that exceeds the majority of the world, etc).
4. Experienced riders explain why a “level head” isn’t enough. You also need SKILL, which can ONLY be gained via experience. (Newbie thinks he has innate motorcycle skills)
5. Newbie makes up excuses as to why he is “mature” enough to handle a 600cc bike”. (Skill drives motorcycles, not maturity)
6. Newbie, with no knowledge about motorcycles, totally disregards all the advice he asked for in the first place. (Which brings us right back to the VERY FIRST point I made about “knowledge of subject matter”).
7. Newbie goes out and buys a R6, CBR, GSX, 6R, etc. Newbie is scared of the power. Being scared of your bike is the LAST thing you want. Newbie gets turned-off to motorcycles, because of fear, and never gets to really experience all the fun that they truly can be. Or worse, Newbie gets in a serious accident.
8. Newbie was actually never really looking for serious advice anyway. What he really wanted was validation and approval of a choice he was about to make or had already consciously made. When he received real advice instead of validation he became defensive about his ability to handle a modern sport bike as first ride. Validation of a poor decision isn’t going to replace scratched bodywork on your bike. It isn’t going put broken bones back together. It isn’t going graft shredded skin back onto your body. It isn’t going to teach you to ride a motorcycle the correct way. However, solid advice from experienced riders, when heeded, can help to avoid some of these issues.
I’m not trying to be harsh. I’m being real. Look all over the net. You’ll see veteran after veteran telling new riders NOT to get a 600cc bike for a first ride. You’ll even see pros saying to start small. Why? Because we hate new riders? Because we don't want others to have cool bikes? Because we want to smash your dreams? Nothing could be further from the truth. The more riders the better (assuming there not squids)! The reason people like me and countless others spend so much time trying to dissuade new riders from 600cc bikes is because we actually care about you. We don't want to see people get hurt. We don't want to see more people die in senseless accidents that could have been totally avoided with a little logic and patients. We want the “sport” to grow in a safe, healthy, and sane way. We WANT you to be around to ride that R6, CBR600RR, GSX-1000, Habayasu, etc that you desire so badly. However, we just want you to be able to ride it in a safe manner that isn’t going to be a threat to yourself or others. A side note, you may see people on the net and elsewhere saying “600cc bike are OK to start with”. Look a bit deeper when you see this. The vast majority of people making these statements are new riders themselves. If you follow their advice you’ve entered into a situation of the blind leading the blind. This is not something you want to do with motorcycles. You may also hear bike dealers saying that a 600cc is a good starter bike. They are trying to make money off you. Don’t listen.
8. HELP IS ON THE WAY!!!
Speaking of help, this is a great time to plug the MSF (Motorcycle Safety Foundation) course. The MSF course is an AMAZING learning opportunity for new riders. The courses are offered all over the USA. A link for their web site is listed at the bottom of this post (or do a Goggle search and check you local RMV web page.). The MSF course assumes no prior knowledge of motorcycles and teaches the basics of how to ride a bike with out killing yourself (and NO, just because you passed the MSF course it dose NOT mean your ready for an R6, GSX, CBR, etc). They provide motorcycles and helmets for the course. It is by far THE BEST way to start a life-long relationship with motorcycles. In some areas if you pass the course your motorcycle license will then be directly mailed to you. This means that you DON’T HAVE TO GO TO THE RMV, AT ALL!!!). That alone should be enough reason to take the course. Also, in some states you will get a discount on your insurance after you’ve taken the course. But wait, there is more! Some manufactures (Honda, Yamaha, etc) offer rebates if you take the course and then buy one of their bikes. Check their web sites / local dealers for details. I can’t plug the MSF course enough. It the best deal going for new riders. Period.
By the way, the short answer to the question, “What should I get for a first bike?” is as follows;
1. First choice, a used bike that is 500cc or under. A new 500cc bike is good, but it would suck if you dropped it. Plus, it will depreciate in value the second you drive off the dealers parking lot…not good when you want to resell it for that brand new R6, GSX600, CBR600, etc.
2. Any used OLDER 600cc sport bike (like 1980’s, early 1990’s).
3. Go here http://www.clarity.net/adam/buying-bike.html for the most compressive guide on “how to buy a used bike” that has ever been written.
Good “sport” type bikes for a first ride are as follows:
Honda: early 1990's Honda F2, F3, F4, 599
Kawasaki: Ninja 250cc, Ninja 500cc, early 1990’s ZX-6E or ZZR600.
Suzuki: GS500E, early 1990’s Katana 600cc, SV650*, SV650s*
Yamaha: early 1990’s Yamaha YZF600R*

*Suzuki’s SV650 and Yamaha’s YZF-600R can be quite a handful for a new rider, but they can also make great bikes.
4. Any other used “standard” style motorcycle.
Also, a GREAT book to check out is “The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Motorcycles, 3rd edition”. The book coves everything from picking out a first bike, simple repair, anatomy of an engine, how to buy a used bike, riding gear, tips for surviving on the road, racing, etc. You can check this book out almost any major bookstore, www.amazon.com, or www.idiotsguides.com MY ADAVICE FOR ANYONE LOOKING TO GET INTO MOTORCYCLES WOULD BE TO BUY THIS BOOK AND READ IT COVER TO COVER ABOUT 2 OR 3 TIMES. AFTER YOU HAVE DONE THAT, THEN TAKE THE MSF COURSE. You’ll go into the course with some great information that will greatly enrich and hasten your learning experience. It will also give you a HUGE advantage on the written test at the conclusion of the MSF course. Trust me on this one, buy the book. At the very least, go hang out at Barnes & Nobel for an afternoon and read as much of the book as you can until they kick you out of the store.
I haven’t even mentioned riding gear. Get it. Wear it. People who wear tank tops, flip-flops, and shorts while riding don’t look so cool when it comes time for a skin-graft (or when a bee goes up their shorts). There are two types of motorcycle rides: those who have crashed, and those who will. Dress for the crash, not the ride.

A number of people have emailed me recently and asked the following question, “I have ridden a friends street bike a few times, and grew up riding off-road bikes. With this history, would I be OK on a modern 600cc bike?” The answer is “No”. Off-road and street riding are totally different worlds. Granted, someone with off-road history knows things like shift patterns, how to use a clutch, etc but the power, weight, and handling of street bikes are a different ball game altogether.

-chr|s sedition
Boston, MA
[email protected]
www.msf-usa.org (web site for the Motorcycle Safety Foundation)

Contributors to Content:
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Nice write up... I would say sticky it, but thats the best way to make sure its ignored...


One thing.. whats up with all the ascii characters?
 

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Man, I said exactly what you're saying now when I was planning on gettng my first bike. "I want a 600!" So I went out and bought an '05 ZX-6R. At 900 mi. I tipped the bike over on the right side leaving my driveway at about 2 mi/hr. The damages on the bike are minimal; a broken footpeg and a damaged upper fairing, all of which I can replace. But my point is there are things about riding a bike that's unfamiliar to new riders. Even the little things like pulling out of your driveway at low speeds can be a challenge. If I can turn back the hands of time, I would pick a Ninja 500r over the all uncomprimising 600 class horsepower leader ZX-6R. In fact I might pick up a 250r since I was approved for a Kawasaki Good Times credit card! Just heed some of the warnings that are spoken here on this forum.
 
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