Need Advise From some Pro's - Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-07-2006, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2
Question Need Advise From some Pro's

Hi My name is mike, this is my first post here, im looking into getting my first bike, Ive read a lot of the other questions by other members, but im still unsure.
im 6'2 220lbs. Not looking for something super fast, but not something i will be bored with. i wanted to get a used bike but i wont be able to save up enough till next season, so i was thinking about financing a new bike. but i dont want to get stuck with some beginner bike and want to upgrade next season. so would i be able to start out with a cbr600 or a yamaha yzf600. also i was wondering is there big size differnce between say the cbr1000 and the 600? i just dont want to get something thats going to be small to ride for my size. thanks for reading my stupid questions,and any help, i would really appreciate. thanks
Seven-nj is offline  
Sponsored Links
post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-07-2006, 01:50 PM
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,798
Hey mike, welcome to SBW.

Your question is by far the most often asked here (Second one is "How do I wheelie?" third is "How do I fix broken plastics?"). All that said lets start with a few basics.

Just about anybike will have no problems what so ever pulling your "size". A 500 ninja will have no issues with a 300lbs rider and will still out perform most street cars.

Next, you will drop your first bike. Everyone here has. With luck you'll drop it at 5mph and not 60. But its going to see some pavement. For that reason, I advise you to get a used bike. They hurt the wallet/ego less when they fall. Whichever bike you end up getting, invest in some frame sliders.

Sportbikes made some amazing advances in the past couple of years. The '06 600's make more power then a 98 liter bike. Thats good news to most everyone, except for new riders. Lighter, touchier, powerfull bikes are difficult to handle untill you get the "muscle memmory" needed to control a bike. Peaky engines are very easy to stall, high compression means rear tire locks up on downshifts, bars headshake when on the throttle etc. For that reason, if you choose to buy a new bike, I would recommend you go for a non race replica bike, such as a SV650. Or an early 90's 600 either way.

Another thing to consider from a fanancial standpoint is the cost of gear. A full set will run you between $500 (for a decent helmet and textiles) to $1000 (for basic race ready leathers and a good helmet) and more if you want to go high end. It goes without saying that helmet, gloves, jacket and boots are an absolute necessity.

On to the last question. There is virtually no difference in the size of 600 and liters. the weight difference is ussually around 20lbs (a tank of gas).

Hope that helps

Vash is offline  
post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-07-2006, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2

sounds good man, thanks for the quick response.
Seven-nj is offline  
post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-07-2006, 03:56 PM
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 19
Hey Seven-nj sorry this doesn't have anything to do with your topic but i saw you were from woodbridge like me. Well actually i live in fords but yea... same thing. Just saying hi and good luck on getting a bike.
brettbags is offline  
post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-17-2006, 04:39 PM
Registered User
Chris Sedition's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 471
Send a message via AIM to Chris Sedition Send a message via Yahoo to Chris Sedition
welcome to the SBW madness. If you havn't run across this yet, have a read.

One of the most common questions new sport bike riders have is, “What kind of bike should I get?” This question is asked so often that I created a standardized response. Please keep in mind that these are the views and opinions of one person (albeit countless other also hold them) With that said, on we go…
Getting ANY modern 600cc sport bike for a first ride is a bad idea (far, far, far worse is a 1000cc) In fact, it may be nothing more than an expensive form of suicide. Here are a few reasons why.
1. Knowledge of Subject Matter
When anyone starts something new they find themselves at the most basic point of the “beginner’s mind”. This is to say that they are at the very start of the learning curve. They are not even aware of what it is that they don't know. A personal example of this is when I began Shotokan Karate. The first day of class I had no idea what an “inside-block” was, let alone how to do it with correct form, power, and consistency. After some time, and a lot of practice, I could only then realize how bad my form really was. Then, and only then, was I able to begin the process of improving it. I had to become knowledgeable that inside-blocks even existed before I was aware that I couldn’t do them correctly. I had to learn what the correct elements of inside-block were, before I realized that I did not have those elements. After I learned, I was then able to aspire towards the proper elements. This example is to illustrate the point that it takes knowledge OF something in order to understand how that something works, functions, performs, etc. Now lets return to the world of motorcycles. A beginner has NO motorcycle experience. They are not even aware of the power, mistakes, handling, shifting, turning dynamics etc. of any bike, let alone a high performance sport bike. Not only do they lack the SKILL of how to ride a motorcycle, they also lack the knowledge of WHAT skills they need to learn. Acquiring those skills comes only with experience and learning from your mistakes. As one moves through the learning curve they begin to amass new information…they also make mistakes. A ton of them.
2. The Learning Curve
While learning to do something, your first efforts are often sloppy and full of mistakes. Without mistakes the learning process is impossible. A mistake on a sport bike can be fatal. The things new riders need to learn above all is smooth throttle control, proper speed, and how to lean going into turns. A 600cc bike can reach 60mph in about 3 to 5 seconds. A simple beginners mishap with that much power and torque can cost you your life (or a few limbs) before you even knew what happened. Grab a handful of throttle going into a turn and you may end up crossing that little yellow line on the road into on-coming traffic…**shudder**. Bikes that are more forgiving of mistakes are far safer (not to mention, more fun) to learn on.
Ask yourself this question; in which manner would you rather learn to walk on a circus high-wire (1) with a 4x4 board that is 2 feet off the ground (2) with a wire that is 20 feet off the ground? Most sensible people would choose (1). The reason why is obvious. Unfortunately safety concerns with a first motorcycle aren’t as apparent as they are in the example above. However, the wrong choice of what equipment to learn on can be just as deadly, regardless of how safe, careful, and level-headed you intend to be.
3. “But I Will be Safe, Responsible, and Level-Headed While Learning".
Sorry, but this line of reasoning doesn’t cut it. To be safe you also need SKILL (throttle control, speed, leaning, etc). Skill comes ONLY with experience. To gain experience you must ride in real traffic, with real cars, and real dangers. Before that experience is developed, you are best suited with a bike that won’t severely punish you for minor mistakes. A cutting edge race bike is not one of these bikes.
Imagine someone saying, "I want to learn to juggle, but I’m going to start by learning with chainsaws. But don’t worry. I intend to go slow, be careful, stay level-headed, and respect the power of the chainsaws while I’m learning". Like the high-wire example, the proper route here isn’t hard to see. Be “careful” all you want, go as “slow” as you want, be as “cautious” as you want, be as “respectful” as you want…your still juggling chainsaws! The “level-headed” thing to do in this situation is NOT to start with chainsaws. Without a foundation in place of HOW to juggle there is only a small level of safety you can aspire towards. Plain and simple, it’s just better to learn juggling with tennis balls than it with chainsaws. The same holds true for learning to ride a motorcycle. Start with a solid foundation in the basics, and then move up. Many people say that “maturity” will help you be safe with motorcycles. They are correct. However, maturity has NOTHING to do with learning to ride a motorcycle. Maturity is what you SHOULD use when deciding what kind of bike to buy so that you may learn to ride a motorcycle safely.
4. “I Don’t Want a Bike I’ll Outgrow”
Please. Did your Momma put you in size 9 shoes at age 2? Get with the program. It is far better to maximize the performance of a smaller motorcycle and get “bored" with it than it is to mess-up your really fast bike (not mention messing yourself up) and not being able to ride at all. Power is nothing without control.
5. “I Don’t Want to Waste Money on a Bike I’ll Only Have for a Short Period of Time” (i.e. cost)
Smaller, used bikes have and retain good resale value. This is because other sane people will want them as learner bikes. You’ll prolly be able to sell a used learner bike for as much as you paid for it. If you can't afford to upgrade in a year or two, then you definitely can't afford to wreck the bike your dreaming about. At the very least, most new riders drop bikes going under 20MPH, when the bike is at its most unstable periods. If you drop your brand new bike, fresh off the showroom floor, while your learning (and you will), you've just broken a directional, perhaps a brake or clutch lever, cracked / scrapped the fairings ($300.00 each to replace), messed-up the engine casing, messed-up the bar ends, etc. It's better and cheaper to drop a used bike that you don’t care about than one you just spent $8,500 on. Fortunately, most of these types of accidents do not result in serious physical injury. It’s usually just a big dent in your pride and…
6. EGO.
Worried about looking like chump on a smaller bike? Well, your gonna look like the biggest idiot ever on your brand new, but messed-up bike after you’ve dropped it a few times. You’ll also look really dumb with a badass race bike that you stall 15 times at a red light before you can get into gear. Or even better, how about a nice R6 that you can’t ride more than 15mph around a turn because you don’t know how to counter-steer correctly? Yeah, your gonna be really cool with that bike, huh? Any real rider would give you props for going about learning to ride the *correct* way (i.e. on a learner bike). If you’re stressed about impressing someone with a “cool” bike, or embarrassed about being on smaller bike, then your not “mature enough” to handle the responsibility of ANY motorcycle. Try a bicycle. After you've grow-up (“matured”), revisit the idea of something with an engine.
7. "Don’t Ask for Advice if You Don't Want to Hear a Real Answer".
A common pattern:
1. Newbie asks for advice on a 1st bike (Newbie wants to hear certain answers)
2. Experienced riders advise Newbie against a 600cc bike for a first ride (this is not what Newbie wanted to hear).
3. Newbie says and thinks, "Others mess up while learning, but that wont happen to me" (as if Newbie is invincible, holds superpowers, never makes mistakes, has a “level head”, or has a skill set that exceeds the majority of the world, etc).
4. Experienced riders explain why a “level head” isn’t enough. You also need SKILL, which can ONLY be gained via experience. (Newbie thinks he has innate motorcycle skills)
5. Newbie makes up excuses as to why he is “mature” enough to handle a 600cc bike”. (skill drives motorcycles, not maturity)
6. Newbie, with no knowledge about motorcycles, totally disregards all the advice he asked for in the first place. (which brings us right back to the VERY FIRST point I made about “knowledge of subject matter”).
7. Newbie goes out and buys a R6, CBR, GSX, 6R, etc. Newbie is scared of the power. Being scared of your bike is the LAST thing you want. Newbie gets turned-off to motorcycles, because of fear, and never gets to really experience all the fun that they can really be. Or worse, Newbie gets in a serious accident.
8. The truth of the matter is that Newbie was actually never really looking for serious advice. What he really wanted was validation and / or approval of a choice he was about to make or already had made. When he received real advice instead of validation he became defensive about his ability to handle a modern sport bike as first ride (thus defending the choice he had made). Validation of a poor decision isn’t going to replace scratched bodywork on your bike. It isn’t going put broken bones back together. It isn’t going graft shredded skin back onto your body. It isn’t going to teach you to ride a motorcycle the correct way. However, solid advice from experienced riders, when heeded, can help to avoid some of these issues.
I’m not trying to be harsh. I’m being real. Look all over the net. You’ll see veteran after veteran telling new riders NOT to get a 600cc bike for a first ride. You’ll even see pros saying to start small. Why? Because we hate new riders? Because we don't want others to have cool bikes? Because we want to smash your dreams? Nothing could be further from the truth. The more riders the better (assuming there not squids)! The reason people like me and countless others spend so much time trying to dissuade new riders from 600cc bikes is because we actually care about you. We don't want to see people get hurt. We don't want to see more people die in senseless accidents that could have been totally avoided with a little logic and patients. We want the “sport” to grow in a safe, healthy, and sane way. We want you to be around to ride that R6, CBR600RR, GSX-1000, Habayasu, etc that you desire so badly. However, we just want you to be able to ride it in a safe manner that isn’t going to be a threat to yourself or others. A side note, you may see people on the net and elsewhere saying “600cc bike are OK to start with”. Look a bit deeper when you see this. The vast majority of people making these statements are new riders themselves. If you follow their advice you’ve entered into a situation of the blind leading the blind. This is not something you want to do with motorcycles. You may also hear bike dealers saying that a 600cc is a good starter bike. They are trying to make money off you. Don’t listen.
Speaking of help, this is a great time to plug the MSF (Motorcycle Safety Foundation) course. The MSF course is an AMAZING learning opportunity for new riders. The courses are offered all over the USA. A link for their web site is listed at the bottom of this post (or do a Goggle search and check you local RMV web page.). The MSF course assumes no prior knowledge of motorcycles and teaches the basics of how to ride a bike with out killing yourself (and NO, just because you passed the MSF course it does NOT mean your ready for an R6, GSX, CBR, etc). They provide motorcycles and helmets for the course. It is by far THE BEST way to start a life-long relationship with motorcycles. In some areas if you pass the course your motorcycle license will then be directly mailed to you. This means that you DON’T HAVE TO GO TO THE RMV, AT ALL!!!). That alone should be enough reason to take the course. Also, in some states you will get a discount on your insurance after you’ve taken the course. But wait, there is more! Some manufactures (Honda, Yamaha, etc) offer rebates if you take the course and then buy one of their bikes. Check their web sites / local dealers for details. I can’t plug the MSF course enough. It the best deal going for new riders. Period.
By the way, the short answer to the question, “What should I get for a first bike?” is as follows;
1. First choice, a used bike that is 500cc or under. A new 500cc bike is good, but it would suck if you dropped it. Plus, it will depreciate in value the second you drive off the dealers parking lot…not good when you want to resell it for that brand new R6, GSX600, CBR600, etc.
2. Any used OLDER 600cc sport bike (like 1980’s, early 1990’s).
3. Go here for the most compressive guide on “how to buy a used bike” that has ever been written.
Good “sport” type bikes for a first ride are as follows:
Honda: early 1990's Honda F2, F3, F4, 599
Kawasaki: Ninja 250cc, Ninja 500cc, early 1990’s ZX-6E or ZZR600.
Suzuki: GS500E, early 1990’s Katana 600cc, SV650*, SV650s*
Yamaha: early 1990’s Yamaha YZF600R*

*Suzuki’s SV650 and Yamaha’s YZF-600R can be quite a handful for a new rider, but they can also make great bikes.
4. Any other used “standard” style motorcycle.
Also, a GREAT book to check out is “The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Motorcycles, 3rd edition”. The book coves everything from picking out a first bike, simple repair, anatomy of an engine, how to buy a used bike, riding gear, tips for surviving on the road, racing, etc. You can check this book out almost any major bookstore,, or MY ADAVICE FOR ANYONE LOOKING TO GET INTO MOTORCYCLES WOULD BE TO BUY THIS BOOK AND READ IT COVER TO COVER ABOUT 2 OR 3 TIMES. AFTER YOU HAVE DONE THAT, THEN TAKE THE MSF COURSE. You’ll go into the course with some great information that will greatly enrich and hasten your learning experience. It will also give you a HUGE advantage on the written test at the conclusion of the MSF course. Trust me on this one, buy the book. At the very least, go hang out at Barnes & Nobel for an afternoon and read as much of the book as you can until they kick you out of the store.
I hope this information was helpful, and feel free to email me with any questions. I haven’t even mentioned riding gear. Get it. Wear it. People who wear a tank top, flip-flops, and shorts while riding don’t look so cool when it comes time for a skin-graft (or when a bee goes up their shorts). There are two types of motorcycle riders: those who have crashed, and those who will. Dress for the crash, not the ride.
A number of people have emailed me recently and asked the following question, (1) “I have ridden a friends street bike a few times, and grew up riding off-road bikes. With this history, would I be OK on a modern 600cc bike?” (2) I’m a bigger person, should I get a larger cc bike to compensate? The answer to both is “No”. Off-road and street riding are totally different worlds. Granted, someone with off-road history knows things like shift patterns, how to use a clutch, etc but the power, weight, and handling of street bikes are a different ball game altogether. As for larger people, additional height or weight does not mean that a bike is going to go “slower” to a degree that would in anyway justify a larger bike. Someone who weighs 250lbs can get themselves in trouble just as fast on a R6 as someone who weighs 150lbs. If you are taller, you’re going to be cramped on almost any sport bike. The best advice is to sit on a number of bikes and see which fits your body the best. Note, this does not mean that you should get a new GSX-750cc as first bike because it fits you better than a 1991 Honda F2 (a much better choice for a first-time rider). Once you got the basics down, then you can go for that better-fitting GSX-750cc, but not beforehand.

-chr|s sedition
Boston, MA
[email protected] (web site for the Motorcycle Safety Foundation)

Contributors to Content:
“Drewser600” / Sportrider
“Z_Fanatic” / sbw.sportbikes
“Ancosta” / NESR
“Tevo” / Sportrider

AIM: chR1s sedition
Yahoo: CSedition

2003 R1 (black / red / hell-fire)

"All black, no bling"
Chris Sedition is offline  
post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-17-2006, 05:33 PM
Registered User
mac020's Avatar
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Colorado Springs, CO USA 80908
Posts: 1,430

A few ccs short of a full litre.
mac020 is offline  
post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-17-2006, 05:57 PM
Strength and Honor
kanwisch's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Central IN
Posts: 6,144
Originally posted by Chris Sedition
welcome to the SBW madness. If you havn't run across this yet, have a read.
My hero!

Chris, you gotta put this into one of the stickies so I can reference it. Every time I come across one of these threads, I think back to the first time you wrote it and think, "Where the hell is that damn thread?"

SportbikeWorld Supermoderator

Dragging knee is for the track, and dragging tail is for the lot. --Kane Friesen

When you're in a car, you're watching a movie; when you're on a bike, you're in the movie. --Robert Pirsig

Identity theft is not Fun
kanwisch is offline  
post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-17-2006, 06:21 PM
Registered User
Chris Sedition's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 471
Send a message via AIM to Chris Sedition Send a message via Yahoo to Chris Sedition
Originally posted by kanwisch
My hero!

Chris, you gotta put this into one of the stickies so I can reference it. Every time I come across one of these threads, I think back to the first time you wrote it and think, "Where the hell is that damn thread?"
DONE! I added it to the "a must read for all new riders" thread. I even got fancy and used some of the bold typeface options! As a side note, to keep that thread on-point, some of the mod's might wanna go through it and parce some of the "yeah, me too" type respones to much more in depth answers or comments.


AIM: chR1s sedition
Yahoo: CSedition

2003 R1 (black / red / hell-fire)

"All black, no bling"

Last edited by Chris Sedition; 03-17-2006 at 06:26 PM.
Chris Sedition is offline  
post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-17-2006, 09:12 PM
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 68
Hows it going man? Im right around the corner ( rahway) from you. I started riding last year, and unless you are a super speed junky, a used 600 will be good for atleast a year, besides, if you keep it in decent shape, it doesnt depreciate to much. If you get a bike soon send me a pm and we can ride together, take it easy.
Fizzer-aid is offline  
post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-17-2006, 11:07 PM
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 746
Originally posted by Fizzer-aid
Hows it going man? Im right around the corner ( rahway) from you. I started riding last year, and unless you are a super speed junky, a used 600 will be good for atleast a year, besides, if you keep it in decent shape, it doesnt depreciate to much. If you get a bike soon send me a pm and we can ride together, take it easy.
Have you read the posts??? Let's say he is totally retarded and doesn't take any advice, buys a new 600 or 1k, you want to ride with someone with zero experience on a new bike? Another note: you started riding less than a year ago but in your infinite wisdom you can say a used 600 is good for "at least a year"

is wrong with some people?!?!

mstrand_68 is offline  
Sponsored Links

Quick Reply

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome