Should MSF instructors be m/c mentors?? - Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-02-2005, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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Should MSF instructors be m/c mentors??

If you're a newbie, consider the existence of this site and others like it as your good fortune.

In MSF, I see many young misinformed, misguided, and to be blunt - retards and dumb asses that shouldn't even go near motorcycles, much less ride one. Some of them started on R1s, crashed 4 or 5 times, got pulled over by cops countless times, road rash all over, and still did not have any clue to change riding habits, much less replacing the old battered helmet. It's absolutely amazing that this one dude is still alive and tooling around. And then there are those who are potential dumb asses, after passing MSF, they feel they are qualified to operate ZX-6R or R1. It's one thing for one person to be deluded, but when the blind is the leader, suddenly everyone is a crotch rocket jockey.

Count your blessings newbies that you have experienced mentors here who'll reveal the secrets beneath the shiny fairings.

I seriously think that MSF instructors have an obligation to inform newbies regarding starter bikes, but none took the time and effort to do so. So MSF handbook should be updated to some degree to include these valuable info. That book states that most bikes have "5 gears," it's that outdated.

Today when I went back to MSF, I was shaking my head. Older guys wanting to start on 1100 ccs cruisers, and the young'uns goin for the "rocket bike." I wonder how many of them would be left riding for next 5 years.

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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-02-2005, 01:59 PM
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Re: Should MSF instructors be m/c mentors??

Quote:
Originally posted by Z_Fanatic
If you're a newbie, consider the existence of this site and others like it as your good fortune...

..... Older guys wanting to start on 1100 ccs cruisers, and the young'uns goin for the "rocket bike." I wonder how many of them would be left riding for next 5 years.
Many of those cruisers are lucky to have the HP of an EX-500. That's another thing often missed, especially when a Harley rider says, "you should be able to handle a 600". One of Honda's 750's only makes about 37 HP, Harley's big twins about 55 or 60 which is about the same as an EX but with somewhere in the range of twice the weight. Even Harley's hot rod, the V-Rod, is only about the same HP as a 600. A different animal for sure.

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-02-2005, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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I have less concern about the cruisers, considering their power to weight ratio (although their weight can be too much for some), but it's the same mistake that newbie riders tend to pass along one another, 750 cc sportbike has almost the same power as 750 cc cruisers, when they're completely different. But since most of MSF participants are young adults, the power of these bikes are gravely underestimated.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-02-2005, 02:57 PM
 
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Re: Should MSF instructors be m/c mentors??

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Originally posted by Z_Fanatic
...In MSF, I see many young misinformed, misguided, and to be blunt - retards and dumb asses that shouldn't even go near motorcycles, much less ride one...
It's a sad reality. There are people out there who shouldn't even be allowed near a Geo Storm who ride around on race replicas giving us all a bad name.

What can you do, ya know? Just comes with the territory. Decent riders who took the right course and educated themselves will always be turned into a generalization because of the relatively few retards who "had to get an 'R' bike".
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-02-2005, 04:15 PM
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Thumbs up still learning.....

Last year I attended the Northwestern Police Institute Police Motorcycle Operators course! It was two weeks of the most intense training that I have ever encountered! I was taught how very little that I actually knew about safe riding and the total lack of knowledge that I actually had about a given motorcycles' capabilities! For someone that maybe had a little bit of "ignorant" over-confidence about his own riding capability, needless-to-say, it was an eye opener!

Long story short, I developed a very, very deep respect for my four instructors! What they gave me and what I carry with me everyday, that I am on two wheels, is without a doubt, priceless.

They were each Advanced MSF instructors, as-well-as being instructors for Northwestern and Harley Davidson and carried many, many years of accumulative riding experience with them. To any of you who are instructors, everyone of us on SBW should welcome your comments and advice! Keep it coming, be safe and go ride!!!!
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-02-2005, 06:13 PM
 
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Fanatic I will go along with Dad's post for in truth with all the weight & lack of power those cruisers really puts a 500cc as a fast trotting bike.

The weight is up to the buyer & some will feel to much strain to get one off its prop stand & good chance they will drop the idea of that bike in cc size.

Have you ever lifted a police Harley or Kawaski, with all its equipment, off its prop stand & moved around inside a shop? Believe me those things weigh a ruddy ton & according to probably one of the last RCMP m/c Constables the HD are so much heavier then the Kwacker 1000 which he keeps on hanging onto.

The kids with the loose screws riding hot trotting sportbikes there is not much we can do to try in helping them. You have seen on this & probably other m/c boards that so many have their eye on a new 600cc or 1000cc & no matter what we do that will not change their way of thinking.

So the MSF Instructor people advising what is best to get or updating the MSF book would probably be outdated in two yrs time & you know how Govts are in making sensible changes!!!!!
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-03-2005, 08:21 AM
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Lightbulb hey Smitty....

Just some useless knowledge....A Harley Davidson Police Road King, fully equiped weighs in around 950-1000 lbs! We ride the Harley Davidson Police Electra Glides. Fully equiped they come in around 1250-1300 lbs! The first morning of class all we did was to learn how to lay them down and pick them up.....over...and...over...and...over...and...over ............
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-03-2005, 10:42 AM
 
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The MSF instructors where I took my class were very helpful and tried to discourage people from running out and buying a brand new Busa.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-03-2005, 11:02 AM
 
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My MSF instructors were top notch! They asked all of us what kind of bikes we rode, myself I started on an F4i, almost an R6, but they taught us no matter what we rode to RESPECT THE POWER EACH KIND OF BIKE HAD! They also agreeed on the fact that the MSF books were a bit outdated since all of us in the course had trouble remembering to turn the fuel on ( FI is a spoiler ) I wonder what it would take to try and get the MSF to update their material?
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-03-2005, 02:59 PM
 
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endleswavz, the very idea idea of laying a fully set-up HD lifting one up is really beyond the thinking of this old sod, but doing it time & time again-------hard to accept, but know that would be the proper training.

The RCMP Constable in Banff Alberta Cdn. had this 74ohv Harley delivered to them in late 50s with it being bare. Three of them asked me to teach them how to ride it.

Well I had them ride the bike out to a large field & there they learned to ride the bike on a dirt field. Dropped it constantly & lifted it up till they were doing quite well & so the pavement became fairly easy to ride after the days of dirt riding the bike.

As Banff is a place for tourists & wanting to have their photo taken with a REAL RCMP Constable in his riding breeches & red serge. So all on duty had to be ready to quickly scoot into the office to remove regular jacket & flat hat for the change to red serge, Sam Browne & Stetson.

So one of the chaps I tough was riding the bike with his best breeches, & riding boots, plus his regular jacket & flat cap.

Only some cage driver cut him off, RIGHT in front of HQ & down he went. What really bunged his was the damage he did to his BEST riding breeches & highly polished riding boots.

The bike was picked up by a truck, to be hauled back to Calgary & so their first & last m/c.

REASON I took them to a dirt field, to learn is that I had done the same thing myself for almost 6 months-----riding an a sick old HD in the bush till I was 16 yrs of age & then could obtain a DL. I learned so much in the dirt & knew they would learn things as well though only a few days for each.

Which also jives with the belief of some of us that you should learn in the dirt & THEN start to learn on the pavement for riding in the dirt is a lesson in itself.
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