Twisties good idea on first week? - Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-18-2002, 11:04 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 528
Twisties good idea on first week?

I was thinking about going to Mount Palomar next wknd, which pretty much means I would have a week's riding experience b4 I headed there. I've never been on palomar, even in a cage. I don't plan to take any of the turns hard and just cruise around, but I'm wondering if it's still a safe/good idea.
AlwaysNewbie is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-18-2002, 11:39 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,547
Just take it real easy and you'll be fine.

make this an oportunity to practice what the MSF taught you (you did take it right??)

1] look through the corners and where you want to go.

2] counter steer into and out of corners (Mt P will give you plenty of practice with this)


Also, trust your tires, they'll lean farther than you'd believe as long as the road is clean, so make a first pass to look for cops/dirt.

Wear good gear, all of it (boots/gloves/helmet/leather)

Start wide in the corner then turn hard to the inside as you can see a bit better but remember, most turns there are 180's so once on the inside keep leaning as needed to stay inside of the corner. This'll keep you out of the cage/squid impact zone near the double yellow.

Above all else, trust your tires to hold, look into the turn, keep leaning until you're going where you need to go.

never give up and don't grab the brakes

Good luck
apexismaximus is offline  
post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-19-2002, 01:37 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 256
What is your gut telling you? I can guess since you asked the question. How confident are you? I don't know the road, but it sounds like it could be a good downhill (uphill first) run through some twisties. If there is a lot of traffic on weekends, how would you feel about having some moron in a cage right on your a$$ if you are a little slower than traffic? Without pressure like that, you may be able to handle the road just fine. Maybe you should try it on a weekday first with less traffic since you don't know the road. It's a good idea not to get in over your head especially the first week.
RayO is offline  
 
post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-19-2002, 03:14 AM
Registered User
 
FZR400Tony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Pittston, PA 18640
Posts: 3,644
Send a message via Yahoo to FZR400Tony
assuming you have taken the msf course, go for it. if you haven't, don't. you need a lot of time to adjust to counter-steering and making it a reflex.

also, if you are riding slower than traffic, just pull over when you can. it's easier to pull over and let porsche-driver-stud go around.

stay calm and relaxed and remember push right, go right. practice is as much as you can on the way there.

i've been street riding for 10 years or so. i still practice it.

Tony

Coward stays behind freedom.
A braveman stands in front of freedom and defends it for others.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
FZR400Tony is offline  
post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-19-2002, 04:33 AM
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 150
Question

Quote:
Originally posted by apexismaximus

Also, trust your tires, they'll lean farther than you'd believe as long as the road is clean......

Above all else, trust your tires to hold.....

This is one thing I am still struggling with after 7,000 miles in the saddle.

This might be a stupid question, but how can you tell how far you can push tires without pushing them too far?

I have gradually increased the speed I take the same corners at over months, but I still have no idea how much harder I can push them. Sometimes I will drive my cage through the same corners and see what speed a car will handle them at. I am even considering having two friends follow me in a car through the twisties with a camcorder so I can see my lean angles.

Any suggestions?
sjn2560 is offline  
post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-19-2002, 05:04 AM
Registered User
 
FZR400Tony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Pittston, PA 18640
Posts: 3,644
Send a message via Yahoo to FZR400Tony
Quote:
Originally posted by sjn2560



This is one thing I am still struggling with after 7,000 miles in the saddle.

This might be a stupid question, but how can you tell how far you can push tires without pushing them too far?

I have gradually increased the speed I take the same corners at over months, but I still have no idea how much harder I can push them. Sometimes I will drive my cage through the same corners and see what speed a car will handle them at. I am even considering having two friends follow me in a car through the twisties with a camcorder so I can see my lean angles.

Any suggestions?
the problem is there are too many variables to say it's safe to go x when road says y.

a good source of info for you would twist of the wrist, volume 2.

believe it or not, tires slide quite a bit on a bike before they get evil and drop you. the reason they seem to be so quick with pro racers is they are sliding them to begin with. but the front especially, can be pushed out really far if you understand how and when to bring it back. rears slide pretty good as well, but i think they take more experience to slide well.

a really fast bike will also slide with less pridictability and needs more finese to straighten out than a smaller bike, like an sv or fzr400 or ex500, etc. on the little bikes when your sliding the front, you can pick them up so easily with the throttle. the big bike takes a gentler hand. the principles are the same, it's just rider control that's different. in other words, practice this stuff with the 250. the f4i is a lot of bike learn cornering on. the 250 will teach you a lot more.

if you want the easy answer, if you corner right, you'll most likely lose traction on your tires when the exhaust can lifts it off the ground. if you corner wrong, you can crash at pretty low speeds. one piece of advice i like to give to people is to relax when riding. make sure you have your arms loose, legs loose, etc. look far ahead. if you never stop doing it, it gets harder to crash. but a word of warning, it sounds MUCH easier than it is.

Tony

Coward stays behind freedom.
A braveman stands in front of freedom and defends it for others.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Last edited by FZR400Tony; 09-19-2002 at 05:20 AM.
FZR400Tony is offline  
post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-19-2002, 05:48 AM
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 150
One more ? Tony.

I have seen riders corner three ways.

1) they leave the bike in a more upright position while leaning thier body to the side they are turning, or

2) they lean the bike over more while keeping thier body more upright

3) They lean both bike and body.

The only thing I can come up with is:
#1 would be good if the street was wet or has debris on it.

#3 technique is used by Hayden and company on Speedvision.

So what is the advantages/disadvantages of #2?
sjn2560 is offline  
post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-19-2002, 06:04 AM
Registered User
 
FZR400Tony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Pittston, PA 18640
Posts: 3,644
Send a message via Yahoo to FZR400Tony
this isn't gonna be an easy answer and they are all debatable, but this is my opinion.

#1 is good for parking lots or anything that is in first gear and really slow and tight. it limits your ground clearance and water dispursement capabilities the most. i wouldn't use this for gravel or rain. #2 or #3 would be much better in slippery conditions. it's plus side is it gives you balance while getting more lean angle at slow speeds

#2 is great for just riding. not going balls out, but riding. you can see what's ahead of you. you have the best leverage on the bars and it's the most comfortable and natural. the disadvantage is it leaves you less options than #3 when you go in too hot.

#3 is great for track speeds. it's really done to get more ground clearance try to change the bike's center of gravity. i've also found that when really hanging off, it's good for rain. the thing most people don't get and you can see it in my avatar, is i'm just hanging off. but in reality, you actually want to make an effort to push the bike up and keep it on the fat part of the tire. the disadvantages are comfort and the attention cops pay to you.

EDIT: i think i misunderstood what you posted for #1. the comments i made for #1 were keeping the body upright and leaning the bike. after re-reading #1, i'm not sure what advantage there is in leaning your upper body over. actually can't think of one. disadvantages are limiting vision, making your muscles more tense in the arm (to balance). i'm assuming you mean it looks like this below:

\ <<<rider
l <<<bike

i was commenting this:

l <<<rider
/ <<<bike

make sense???

\
< \ <<<nicky hayden and his rc51 i'm reaching at straws...

either way, it's usually best to lean with the bike.

Tony

Coward stays behind freedom.
A braveman stands in front of freedom and defends it for others.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Last edited by FZR400Tony; 09-19-2002 at 06:11 AM.
FZR400Tony is offline  
post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-19-2002, 06:43 AM
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 150
Quote:
Originally posted by FZR400Tony

believe it or not, tires slide quite a bit on a bike before they get evil and drop you......

a really fast bike will also slide with less pridictability and needs in other words, practice this stuff with the 250. the f4i is a lot of bike learn cornering on. the 250 will teach you a lot more.
Sorry if I am being a pain, I just want to become more confident in the turns.

I sold the 250 last week. But I did not feel comfortable cornering hard on it anyway. The suspension was too soft (non adjustable) and the tires were not what I would consider "high performance".

So are you saying, by the first part of your quote, the only way to learn the limits of the bike, tires, and my skill is to take a corner faster and faster each time until the rear tire slides out a bit?

I had the back of the 250 slide out a couple times, so I know what that feels like. But the 250 would slide out at much slower speeds than my F4. Guess I am just chicken.
sjn2560 is offline  
post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-19-2002, 06:51 AM
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 492
AlwaysNewbie-

You should avoid Mt Palomar for a while. It will be a handful for someone just learning. It is very steep, tight, and usually has a good bit of traffic.

Head out towards Otay Lake from Chula Vista. There are some nice twisty roads that way without the steep hills and traffic.

Good luck.
kvpZX9R is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome