Twisties good idea on first week? - Page 2 - Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-19-2002, 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by sjn2560

Sorry if I am being a pain, I just want to become more confident in the turns.

I sold the 250 last week. But I did not feel comfortable cornering hard on it anyway. The suspension was too soft (non adjustable) and the tires were not what I would consider "high performance".

So are you saying, by the first part of your quote, the only way to learn the limits of the bike, tires, and my skill is to take a corner faster and faster each time until the rear tire slides out a bit?

I had the back of the 250 slide out a couple times, so I know what that feels like. But the 250 would slide out at much slower speeds than my F4. Guess I am just chicken.
don't worry about being chicken. when i first started streetriding, i wasn't scared one bit. i was a dumbass and totalled my first bike (which didn't have full coverage). then i decided that i wasn't a speedracer, but still wanted to get a sportbike. so i got one and did a lot of sport touring with it, while reading all i could on how to ride.

i don't think you need to have a bike sliding around understand the dynamics behind it. once it starts moving around, it's good understand what exactly is happening though.

the reason the little ninja is easier, is offers more feedback and is much more controlable.

when you push the front on the f4, it's gonna happen at speeds so fast that it's gonna be much harder to force yourself to open the throttle and get the front back up. the 250 will it's 16" bricks will slide at slower speeds and let you know what the edge of traction feels like, slower and will be easier to control there.

but you don't have to learn through sliding a bike around, it does help to do it to understand the whole thing. a great learning tool for this is a little honda xr100. i know a lot of people who do a lot of "flat track" kind of riding on them so them can get a feel for doing these things. they make 9hp and the list of guys who ride them to train on include; mike himmelsbach, chris carr, kurtis roberts, i think hayden brother still use them, chris ulrich, and those are the guys who talk about it.

i don't want to say go out and try to get the front to slide. at this point, i think you should really focus on relaxing and counter-steering. when they are second nature, work on opening up the throttle earlier and earlier in the corner. as you start to get faster, you'll start staying off the throttle as you go into corners (survival enstinct) and that's when you'll really start to push the front. then you'll start learning to get back on the gas sooner so you don't push the front so much. then the rear will start moving around more. it's a balancing act.

btw, these later things should really be done at the track though. for your f4, you'll be well into the killing yourself on public roads speed to try sliding anything with any real authority.


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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-19-2002, 08:36 AM
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For a new rider I would HIGHLY suggest technique #2 at Mt P and most other places. Especially at Mt P the turns come up pretty fast and as a new rider you'll have enough to do without trying to shift your weight from one side to the other. Just stay upright so you're not tense and yanking yourself all over the bike which just upsets it and diverts your attention.

As far as slides go Mt P is too slow IMHO to load the front enough for it to slide and the only way you're gonna slide the reart is through too much throttle. I recommend going into these corners with about 5000 RPM so the bike has enough pwer to settle the chassis on the rear wheel with a little power but not enough to drive hard out of it. With this technique you'll be nearly immune from big slides if the road is clean as it has been 99% of the time I've been there.

Wisdom says not to chop the throttle because you put too much weight on the front and it may wash out so try very hard to maintain slight positive throttle in the corners but neutral won't get you in too much trouble either at medium speeds like those achieved on Mt P's tight corners. You're almost safe chopping the throttle there also with the low speeds but try very hard not to.

Most likely you'll be able to tak the entire 7 miles in a single gear if you don't speed up too much in the straights. I think this is actually a great road for beginners since the speeds are held down by the tightness. The down side is how blind the 180's are, be ready for someone to be comming the other way, don't get spooked and freeze up.

I'd be happy to ride with you the first time you go but my bike's down for maint. for another 10 days waiting for some parts so if you wait a while I'll show you around?
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-19-2002, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
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thanks all for your help and opinions, this thread was a lot more useful than i'd thought it'd be

Originally posted by apexismaximus

I'd be happy to ride with you the first time you go but my bike's down for maint. for another 10 days waiting for some parts so if you wait a while I'll show you around?
that'd be awesome
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-19-2002, 01:17 PM
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Maybe a group ride Sunday the 29th if I get my parts in in time I can put her back on her feet on the 28th and be ready.??

Have you done the MSF and have you found some local corners to practice on (get used to more and more lean angle). I cut my teeth on clover leafs since Dallas was all flat and straight for a 300 mile radius. 4 interconnected 270 degree constant radius corners with good run off (Pioneer Pkwy and HWY 360). It's about the only thing I'm looking forward to since I'm moving back in Dec. since you can't find a full 4 loop clover in SoCal.
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-19-2002, 08:23 PM Thread Starter
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Yea, I've taken the msf course...was more boring and less informative than i expected, but it definately made me a more knowledgeable and safe rider.

Hopefully my gloves will be in by the next wknd...planning on getting alpinestars sp-1...hopefully get boots or pants sometime in next 2 months.

Oh yea, which should I get or pants, I dont have enough money to buy both at the same time
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-19-2002, 09:45 PM
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great idea

just go slow

I took my friend Jeremy out on some twisties his first day, we just went the speed limit (35-45) so that there was really no reason to slow down, and if we did have to slow down... well we were already going slow.

You WILL encounter turns, each and every time you ride, so the more practice the better.

Some tips:
-Weight your INSIDE peg when leaning the bike over.
-Keep your head/ body slightly inside (left if you are turning left) of the center of your bike.
I see lots of people making left turns, and their bike is leaned way over, but they are sitting straight up, or almost to the right of their bike like they are dirt tracking it.
-When turning properly you should sorta be leading with your head, the bike will follow.
-And remember to be gentle on the brakes, especially the rear as its easy to mis judge and lock up if you panic brake.
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-19-2002, 11:10 PM
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Get the boots first, you're far more likely to sustain a significant foot or ankle injury with lifelong impact even though abrasion injuries to the leg are no fun either. Lose some skin or bust a difficult to heal joint??

Boots for sure IMHO.

PS, I would not get "pants" in the future, I'd get a good starter full suit for 300 or if you can afford it the armor and features get pretty good around 5-600.
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-20-2002, 08:35 AM
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Have been thinking about this one since I read it yesterday.

I would say YES & NO. So much will depend upon the traffic, if they are simple flat twisties, or ones with a steep climb or going down.
Flat twisties are a piece of cake & something I grew up to like when I lived in the Prairie parts of Cdn., but here in B.C. said twisties are tight ones with quite a drop or climb. Even after 17 yrs on the flats these in the mountain area were something I had to learn how to handle & you have to be on your toes all the time. Fact is a group of such twisties are just 30 minutes away from me, so I hit them each time I ride, EVEN if I will eventually be going the other way.
We do have some lovely curves on slight inclines with suggested turns of 60KPH, but I take those at 175 to 185KPH in 5th cog. They are nice but I would not call them twisties for 'curves' are a better wording.
It will be up to you, how your mind is & your experience. Do not be influenced by others to ride beyond what you feel is comfortable.
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-20-2002, 08:45 AM
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The idea of m/cing is to enjoy riding the darn thing & one should not be frightening themself in trying to ride beyond their ability.
Something I feel many riders have forgotten or missed. It is close to Autumn, so get out & enjoy the roads, see the beauty of the harvesting of the farmers, see cattle or horses, take in the smell of freshly cut hay. Stop & soak in the view be it mtns or the change in the colours of the trees or the running of a stream or river. This is an advantage one has with a m/c ------ it is not out to scare the crap out of ourselves so we can rave about it at a coffee joint to fellow riders.
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-20-2002, 11:17 AM
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Just got back from hitting my favorite twisties again. Still can't bring myself to push it. There is little less than an inch of tread on the outsides of my tires that looks brand new. Therefore, I think I can still lean it over a bit furthur (Or can I?).
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