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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-12-2000, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
 
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Hey everyone, this is VYPIR. I have taken the position as a moderator for this forum. I want to introduce a new twist to the trivia questions. The questions I will ask are meant to be more interactive instead of by the book answers. So give any input into the subject that you feel is neccessary.
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Here is my first question.
Okay here is the situation. You are riding and you encounter gravel in a turn. The turn is kind of sharp and your speed and lean angle leave little room for adjustments. You notice that cars have already cut a path through the heavier gravel but a layer of fine sand and small rocks still remain.

At this point what do you feel is the safest way to negotiate this turn and still remain on two wheels.

I will post a response to this question in a few days. Go ahead a tell of any related situations you may have had as well.

VYPIR

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You get the best thrills on two wheels!

Damn rice burners!
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-12-2000, 05:33 PM
 
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the first thing i would do, is try to stay in that path that has been cut thru, if i thought it would help to slow down, or i would low side it if i didn't, i would trail brake, ( rear brake only ) and be as easy on the rear brake as possible.
my only other thought would be if i knew i was going down, i would look at the possibility of straightening it up,and slowing down, but that may require going into the oncomming lane

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-12-2000, 05:35 PM
 
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I would try to get through the area cleared out by cars and brake if possible. would not brake while leaned over though. Had this happen once and lost the bike to the sand monster. My rear tire slide out from me and all I could do was put the left foot down dirt track style, dial into the power and try to slide it around the corner. Unfortunatly I made it through the corner but the back tire clipped the curb from sliding the bike and tossed me out into a ditch. Bike was totaled, helmet toasted from a sharp rock, gloves and leathers ok. Leson learnd was always pre-ride a road if you are going to wick it up even if its a road you know well.

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-12-2000, 07:21 PM
 
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I would simply ride the turn through, comforted by the fact that i was not in over my head, and knew that (a) this road was prone to sand, or (b) i didnt know the road so my speed was slow enough to safely navigate any situation.



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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-13-2000, 03:00 AM
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if i wasn't following green's lead and i was riding too fast for the gravel and sand, i would stand the f'er up and go straight. the turn is shape, how much run-off do you need?

if there's a guard rail there, i would stick to my intended line, roll the gas on a bit to keep the front from trying to slide in the crap and get ready for a ride. that includes staying loose on the bars.

i would avoid the sandy area the cages cut, gravel isn't as bad as sand.

my related story--i was riding a road that tgp showed me, slow, tight, technical, fun. i was alone on it and i hit something like sand and slid the front and rear. staying on the gas saving the gixxer and my butt.

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-13-2000, 03:39 AM
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I'm a squid and I don't do turns sorry!

I wouldn't go through the gravel(make a new path) I would take the path already created, steady throttle, no brakes!, no sudden input to the bike ... smooth, smooth , smooth

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-14-2000, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
 
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Those were great responses. In the situation described, you would want to get all of braking and gear changing done before you got to the gravel. Since there really is no room for lane changing or picking the bike up and going straight, your best option is to try to find the path with the least debris and go through as you would normally. Do not add or reduce throttle and do not apply brakes. You should look into the corner and ease it through. The bike will probably brake the rear tire loose a little and the front may start to slide. The feeling is scary but gravel patches tend to be short and the nice sticky asphault will pop out again.

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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-15-2000, 10:59 AM
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vypir,

you said you don't mind a debate on things.

here's my debate...

first of all, proper cornering dictates that there be a certain amount rear-wheel bias, code states 30/70 (i believe in his books). based on contact patch sizes

so if you heavy brake (and aren't we already in the corner), you would have to add throttle to corner, otherwise the bike is plowing the front slightly, then gravel it should low-side. according to theory.

i know the msf doesn't really discuss this kind of stuff, at least the best of my knowledge, but it seems like the proper way to do things, and throttle has saves my slow ass when i've got the front plowing from not getting on the gas soon enough.

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Tony

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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-15-2000, 01:13 PM
 
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I would do exactly what I did in a similar situation last summer on my then bike, a '95 CBR900RR. I was blasting along a country road (I had been assured by my riding buddy that it was an A-1 road, and I went ahead to have some fun), and I came aound a slight bend to be faced by two things. One, the road all of a sudden went from nice pavement to gravel. Second, there was a major corner. I scrubbed off as much speed as I could on the pavement (got her down to about 140 kmh) then let go of the brakes for a second as I went onto the gravel, so that the wheels wouldn't lock up during the transition. I kept her in a straight line, and dragged both brakes as much as I could without locking either wheel to scrub off as much speed as i could before trying to turn her. I kept this up until I was running out of road and had no choice but to turn. So I let go of the brakes, and eased her ever so gently into the corner. A few little wiggles, but I made the corner, pulled over to the side, and waited for my buddy to catch up (he was on a Harley). When he got there, the first thing he said to me was "Oops, wrong road".

In my case, there were no ruts exposing the hard pack underneath made by cars, and I did the whole thing on pure gravel. If there had been ruts exposing the hardpack, I would have used on of them while scrubbing off my speed and then for the turn. The only thing that saved my bike that time, was all my years of experience on motocross bikes, and a feel for impending wheel lock-up.


Oops, jusr reread the question. The way you phrased it, the best thing to do would be to stand the bike up, go through the gravel, and then lean her way over to regain your line and finish the turn. You didn't say the gravel was the whole way through the turn (as it was in my case), so I am assuming that wasn't. Also, if I thought that I was going to be too hot to finish the turn after the gravel, I would drag both brakes to scrub off as much speed as I safely could while upright and traversing the gravel.

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Rossco.

[This message has been edited by Rossco929 (edited September 15, 2000).]
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-18-2000, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
 
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I do appreciate the critisism. I should have given more time to writing my response but you know, duty calls. Assuming that you are not completely on the edge of your tire you should have plenty of contact patch left. As for giving throttle, this can be both a benefit or a detriment just depending on the situation. If you are leaned too far braking the rear loose could cause the tire o slide too much therefore puting your A** in front of you. In other situations it will keep the front from tucking in by relining the angle of approach (much like a dirtbike). You should brake as much as you possibly can before the corner and the gravel if the situation allows. Although braking while leaned over should be avoided.

Thanx Rosco for your input. Even though you described a situation with nothing but dirt I think that it still applies.

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You get the best thrills on two wheels!

Damn rice burners!

[This message has been edited by VYPIR (edited September 18, 2000).]
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