What is Wrong with our Military Lately? - Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 49 (permalink) Old 04-06-2001, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
 
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Unhappy

There has been a rash of military incidents lately. I can't recall them all but the 2 jets crashing in Europe comes to mind quick, so does the submarine incident with the Japanese fishing boat and who can forget the bombing of the destroyer in Yemen just to name a few!!

Anyway; we now have a reconnaissance or some people call a spy plane and it's crew held hostage in China. Our reconnaissance planes have been harassed MANY times by Chinese fighters for flying along the Chinese border.

SO WHY THE HELL DON'T WE HAVE A FIGHTER ESCORT FOR OUR RECONNAISSANCE PLANES IN THESE SITUATIONS TO KEEP AWAY THE AGGRESSORS AND PREVENT SOMETHING LIKE THIS FROM OCCURRING??!!!

Now we are in this ridiculous situation where we have to bend to their demands or risk not having our Men and Women returned!
I'm sure the Chinese are demanding that we keep farther away from their border which compromises our ability to keep tabs on what they're doing and our security. Now we just gave them a BIG bargaining chip because of our COMPLACENCY or stupidity.

I don't know what's going on with our military but fine young men and women are dying or being put in serious danger needlessly!

Sorry about the length but I feel better now.
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post #2 of 49 (permalink) Old 04-07-2001, 12:15 AM
 
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That is the price of operation. What I mean is all things considered the military has a good track record of not screwing up. No seriously, quit laughing. One must consider how many operations they preform on a monthly basis and how extensive these operations actually are. And if you haven't delt with the military, I will tell you thats what they do most of the time is go out and train.
About escorts for a recon plane. Uh, well recon is supposed to be kind of sneaky, and a couple F16's flying around would not help the mission.
The sub thing? Well, submariners are just stupid. Why else would you sign up to go breath recycled farts for 6 months at a time?
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post #3 of 49 (permalink) Old 04-07-2001, 09:31 AM Thread Starter
 
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Wink

Sorry for the initial rant - I guess hearing this thing drag on was starting to get to me.
I suppose you're right we perform a lot of missions every day so things like this are going to happen.
I like the fact that we are the "superpower" but if we are going to play "world cop" then we need to be a little more protective of our men and women. Particularly in situations like this and Yemen, when we know we are doing something that people in the area don't care for.

nuff said
...... Now, what did I do with the keys to my Suzuki
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post #4 of 49 (permalink) Old 04-08-2001, 07:03 AM
 
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Jon, you shut up. Submariners are not stupid. A little crazy maybe but not stupid. Well okay, the Greenville had a pretty stupid moment.

One issue is that the media is getting wind of more military accidents now. There are alot more accidents happening that the public never hears about. Pilots slamming into the ocean while trying to land on Carriers is way more common than people realize. The only time the public hears about it is when it is one of their precious female pilots. They don't care when it is a male pilot. Submarines have collided with more civilian fishing boats than you realize. It use to be fairly common when we were still operating out of Scotland.

Like Jon said, our military is in the business of training. On my ship we had training 6 days per week while underway. Training is why the US has the best military force in the world. We used to be the most prepared military force from an equipment standpoint too until a bunch of dumbasses put Clinton in the White House for two terms. Now we have the problem of getting our equipment back up to normal standard. You can probably check into most of the recent plane accidents and find out that there are scavenged parts in each of the planes. The spy plane had nothing to do with parts so it isn't the issue. This being done so that they can continue their intense training requirements without enough parts to keep all of the planes operational. The scary part for me is that this was starting to happen with nuclear powered ships too. This is part of the reason I got out of the Navy. It scares the crap out of me. I only hope that we can restore the old mindset of no shortcuts with nuke power. The Navy sets the benchmark for nuclear operations and it needs to stay that way. I predicted when I got out that the US would lose a nuclear powered sub within 15 years if the attitude didn't turn around. I hope that the prediction doesn't come true.

Sorry for the ranting.

The answer to the original question takes two words:

BILL CLINTON
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post #5 of 49 (permalink) Old 04-08-2001, 10:53 AM
 
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Bush actually started the cuts in the military and established the status quo. Remember all those
base closings that were related to Bush? How soon we forget. This is not all Clinton's fault,
as there are more people involved in this stuff than the president. Downsizing has just been a
reaction to the loss of a major enemy, Russia (so people didn't think we needed all this money dropped
into the military).
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post #6 of 49 (permalink) Old 04-08-2001, 04:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by SRX 250
Bush actually started the cuts in the military and established the status quo. Remember all those
base closings that were related to Bush? How soon we forget. This is not all Clinton's fault,
as there are more people involved in this stuff than the president. Downsizing has just been a
reaction to the loss of a major enemy, Russia (so people didn't think we needed all this money dropped
into the military).
No I didn't forget a damn thing.

I was in the military when the major base closings happened and the initial downsizing took place. We took out a bunch of old ships that needed to be decommission and closed a lot of bases that were just opened to keep some Senators constituents happy. I never had a problem with downsizing to a certain point. The 1st Bush administration made necessary cuts. Everyone still had plenty of parts and supplies to operate safely. The Clinton administration cut dangerously deep which put the military in a serious bind. Of course Clinton didn't do it himself but he was(still hurts to say) the President.

The biggest hit to the military came in the initial stages of the Clinton administration while the Democrits controlled the house and senate. They passed the largest tax hike is history and slashed the shit out of the US military wage increase which made it the smallest of my military service and they took away the tax free status on a significant portion of the military's allowances. Moral during the Clinton administration hit an all time low. It was very disturbing having to serve under an individual who protested against our country in the capital of the country supplying the enemy during a very nasty war. That is something that I will never accept.

Democrits want to give credit to Clinton for an economy he had nothing to do with so you can bet your ass he's getting credit for the damage he has done to the military he commanded.

Sorry, but giving Clinton all of the credit for the good but not giving him credit for the bad doesn't wash with me. I'm not saying you are doing this SRX. Just saying that alot of people try to. I don't blame it all on Clinton but he was in charge so that is the way it goes.
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post #7 of 49 (permalink) Old 04-08-2001, 08:27 PM
 
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Lightbulb Mumbo Jumbo from the Mikester

I will echo RCJohns sentiments on this one also.

Another example of Democrats not telling things in thier whole context, is the classic line: "Ronald Reagan made the biggest increases in military spending in US History and brought the Nation quickly into a recession and gave us the biggest budget deficit in US history.

The proper facts of the matter are this:
Reagan inherited a weak, catatonic country which was headed toward recession anyway. Yes he did spearhead the largest military spending spree ever, and yes he did give us the largest deficit.

But i must say he also was perhaps the only US president in the 20th century who accomplished what he set out to do when elected:
Ronald Reagan won the cold war and it is because our system of govt allows such extreme spending that the Soviets collapsed.

If Carter were re-elected in 1980 i can guarantee there would still be a US/Soviet cold war to this day. "Detente" was getting the world nowhere.

I for one would gladly accept a budget deficit and every other "evil" thing the Republicans have done over a thin-skinned, complacent Democrat-run Govt. that makes new excuses every decade to wash themselves of any responsibility for the messes they create.

Also of note, Reagans HUGE tax cuts in the mid 1980's very effectively eliminated the recession and i do remember quite clearly how strong our economy was from 1985-1990.

Wow, did i go off or what???!!!!

Last edited by GreenNinja; 04-08-2001 at 08:31 PM.
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post #8 of 49 (permalink) Old 04-08-2001, 09:47 PM
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Re: Mumbo Jumbo from the Mikester

Quote:
Originally posted by GreenNinja
...But i must say he also was perhaps the only US president in the 20th century who accomplished what he set out to do when elected...
Well, there was that one guy named FDR. He was okay.

And Reagan didn't quite get everthing done. We still have a Department of Education and those damn air traffic controllers. And I thought we'd killed off those pesky buggers.

Anyway, for once I agree with at least parts of what's been said. A lot has changed with my job (submarines) in the past nine years - everything from the quality of our new folks to increased operating time and decreased funds for repairs, etc. It is very discouraging for the deckplate level Sailors to be asked to do more with less, and I suspect it's not just the Navy.

Go Red Sox!

It doesn't have to be fun to be "fun".
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post #9 of 49 (permalink) Old 04-09-2001, 06:15 AM
 
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Re: Re: Mumbo Jumbo from the Mikester

Quote:
Originally posted by scotty


Well, there was that one guy named FDR. He was okay.

And Reagan didn't quite get everthing done. We still have a Department of Education and those damn air traffic controllers. And I thought we'd killed off those pesky buggers.

Anyway, for once I agree with at least parts of what's been said. A lot has changed with my job (submarines) in the past nine years - everything from the quality of our new folks to increased operating time and decreased funds for repairs, etc. It is very discouraging for the deckplate level Sailors to be asked to do more with less, and I suspect it's not just the Navy.

Go Red Sox!
See, sometimes you coners know what you are talking about.

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post #10 of 49 (permalink) Old 04-09-2001, 08:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by motoboy

SO WHY THE HELL DON'T WE HAVE A FIGHTER ESCORT FOR OUR RECONNAISSANCE PLANES IN THESE SITUATIONS TO KEEP AWAY THE AGGRESSORS AND PREVENT SOMETHING LIKE THIS FROM OCCURRING??!!!

The recon flight was in International Waters. No need for escorts there. The Chinese just didn't "follow" International Maritime Laws in that they want their bounderies to extend beyond 200 miles from their shores. And we, being a superpower, like to test that by flying right around 200 miles from their shores.

Remember Libya? You know. That shit country that used to send us hate messages all the time and harbor terrorists? They wanted to extend their Territorial waters beyond 200 miles too. So we sent our Navy to show them no way. And when the Libyans sent their Migs to intercept, we shot 'em down. Oh yeah. We also sent our Air Force to drop some explosives on Kaddafi's head. It worked. Now they leave us alone.

What the Chinese need is a swift kick in the ass. They'll get it soon enough.
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