To Apologize Or Not! - Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-04-2001, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
 
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I'm sure most of you have heard about the collision between a US Orion Spy Plane & a Chinese Mig. Just the stuff CNN dreams of!

Anyway, the Chinese are demanding an apology. They're also holding the damaged US plane and it's 24 crew members in some little island owned by China.

Bush & Powell say go to hell. No apologies from the US. P3 was in international waters and the Chinese Migs were hot doggin' it around the P3, following it too closesly for intimidation purposes. When the P3 turned, the collision occured. Thus, US position is, we were not doing anything illegal, nor anything out of the ordinary. If the Chinese Migs weren't swarming all over the P3, collision would not have occured. Chinese position is, if US were not spying, collision would not have occured. How would we feel if the Chinese were flying a spy plane that close to US shores?

My personal opinion: To hell with the Chinese. No apologies. We spy on them, they spy on us. It just so happens, we have the planes and bases that can reach out to China. If they had that capability, they would do the same. And we would launch our fighter's to "escort" them out of there. Same game we played with the Soviet Bears off the coast of Alaska.

An apology from the US will be a sign of weakness for the whole nation, the military, and the Bush Administration. At a time in which the Chinese are feeling very arrogant. This period in China is very much like that of Imperial Japan in the 1930's. They're strong economically. They're in the middle of a massive military buildup. Their intentions are to dominate Asia and to someday get rid of US presence there.

Any opinions?
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post #2 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-04-2001, 01:48 PM
Squidwannabe
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I don't think China should hold the plane, Im waiting for the shit to fly ... Im kinda thinking China wanted to knock the plane down just to get a hold of the contents.

I think a stealth bomber should be deployed tonight, and bye bye plane ...

China is no sleeper. They have a large and powerful army. If Canada was to go to war with China we would lose. They have more people than we have bullets
post #3 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-04-2001, 01:50 PM
 
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Great Topic!

I was considering posting this but you beat me to it..
Heres my take on it all.. First off, NO Apology.

Why? Well, the EP-3 is a slow lumbering turbo-prop aircraft, it flies during daylight hours, is easily detectable and can only fly to 28,000ft / 345 mph.

It is not a "spy plane" per se', but a Reconnaisance Aircraft. The U-2 and SR-71 are "spy planes".

The Chinese aircraft have been flying more and more wrecklessly around our EP-3's over the last few months. So much so that the US made a formal complaint to them several months ago, in an effort to increase safetly to both our aircraft and theirs. The Chinese shunned it off as irrelevant.

This was something we saw as an immenent danger for the last 6 months and was not getting any better. The EP-3 is not an agile nor fast maneuvering craft. The Chinese F-8/J-8 fighters are.

We were flying in international waters. This is China's "accident" and no apology is warranted from the US.

That being said, these things happen, and it would have never happened if we were not flying recon in the first place.

Another point to make is that if a Chinese Recon aircraft were to have an accident and MayDay to land at Okinawa, the world press would be on it like flies on shit. We can generally assume that the Chinese would be treated with dignity and a quick resolution would have already been concluded.

And thats my take on it. Lets hear others!!!
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post #4 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-04-2001, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
 
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Don't forget their Navy--a must to dominate the many islands of Asia. Some will argue that it's okay to have a Navy for defense and I would agree. But China has one of the most powerful Navies around besides Russia, France, GB, and India. India. Yeah. That's another story. Anyway, the Chinese are aggressively acquiring Submarines and trying hard to get their hands on an aircraft carrier. Both are most definitely offensive Naval weapons. Some will laugh but seriously, China is the next most likely adversary of the US. Why else are we watching them so closely and keeping them at arms length at all times?
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post #5 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-04-2001, 02:00 PM
 
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I have to agree totally with greenninja! Our plane was merely a reconissance plane and posed no danger to chinese security. The plane is slow and nowhere nearly as agile as the chinese plane. China should appologize to us for the idiotic manuvers of its fighter pilot. IMO, the chinese pilot was prolly intentionally making a close pass at our plane to intimidate....which in its own airspace is warranted but is an act of aggression over international waters.....although i haven't heard wether or not our plane had been previously over china or was on route to china. Anyone have additional info....especially those of you in the Army, Navy, Air Force etc. (declassified info anyways )???
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post #6 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-04-2001, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rogue_Biker
Some will laugh but seriously, China is the next most likely adversary of the US. Why else are we watching them so closely and keeping them at arms length at all times?
The boys in the Pentagon don't laugh at this. They know well enough of China's capabilities.
The US does not want to go up against China. Proof of this is will be if Bush bombs the shit out of that air base or not

Canada is usually right behind the US, but with new deals recently struck up with China by our Prime Minister, I doubt Canada will have much to say about this. (Plus half our population is Chinese )
post #7 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-04-2001, 02:28 PM
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If all they want is a few apologetic words I'd do it without a second thought since lives are at stake. I'd even offer money (kind of like our SGLI) to the family of the fallen pilot just to show our condolences for their loss. We haven't lost anything but a damaged plan so lets keep it that way. So what if we really don't mean Sorry, they're just words.
You can take words back Not lives.

John
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post #8 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-04-2001, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Squidwannabe


The boys in the Pentagon don't laugh at this. They know well enough of China's capabilities.
The US does not want to go up against China. Proof of this is will be if Bush bombs the shit out of that air base or not
An extreme measure would be to send in the SEALS or Delta to get the 24 crew members, then a Naval airstrike to destroy the EP3. In and out fast. Once the Chinese transport the crew in mainland China, there's no chance of getting them back without their permission. This would of course, destroy everything the Clinton Administration has worked so hard with the Chinese to build: A network of contacts for monetary contributions to the Democratic party!

Quote:
Canada is usually right behind the US, but with new deals recently struck up with China by our Prime Minister, I doubt Canada will have much to say about this. (Plus half our population is Chinese )
The US has got deals going on with the Chinese all the time. The Chinese know they need us more than we need them--economically that is. This makes it even more important for them to dominate Asia. To minimize their dependence on US trade. Fact is, no Asian country trusts China as much as they trust the US.
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post #9 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-04-2001, 03:51 PM
 
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I totally agree with your original post Rogue!

I think Bush is not acting quickly enough though! Like someone said: Send in the stealth!! YESTERDAY!
And China can shove their appolgy up their Arses!
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post #10 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-04-2001, 05:09 PM
 
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Angry If it says.....

Made in China, don't buy it. I have not heard much on this situation, but I think that whatever we do, we should not show a sign of weakness. Bombing that base might be a good thing, and maybe not. I know China doesn't want to piss us off, so they may not retaliate to acts of aggression too readily. They are also, in my opinion, very stubborn, and don't want to show signs of weakness either. This could be a good/bad start to a pissing contest, and an agreement should be well sought after first thing. Seems to me that idiot leaders, don't know when to say they've been beaten, like Sadaam and Milosevic, (stubborn) and I'm sure that China's leaders are just the same, which could mean that this could be a drawn out thing....
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