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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-05-2008, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
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Debates

So, I'm watching the Republican debates tonight, and I can't help but say to myself. "Who the hell believes the crap coming out of these people's mouth?!"

And if I watch the next Democratic debates, I'll probably say "Who the hell believes the crap coming out of these people's mouth?!"

There's got to be a better way!

"Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life son." - Vernon Wormer.- Dean, Faber College.
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 03:34 AM
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That's television and the average American, I suppose. Want the 10sec snippet which, of course, doesn't indicate a bit about the candidate.

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 06:54 AM
 
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In light of the candidates... it is particularly bad this year.



I just keep saying to myself ... " Anyone but clinton." That bitch is responsible for starting a bill in an attempt to permanently ban rifles like the AR and AK, and if she has her way, she will ban guns in general. I have two AR15s, and I'll be damned if I am going to give them up because some stupid pathetic bitch who knows nothing about anything truly believes it is more dangerous than a deer rifle because it has a pistol grip.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 12:20 PM
 
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After huckabee started getting press, hillary isnt looking so bad.



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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by Vash
After huckabee started getting press, hillary isnt looking so bad.
Yeah, it takes a few beers, but she grows on you. Then you sober up.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 02:44 PM
 
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Originally posted by Mister Tee
Yeah, it takes a few beers, but she grows on you. Then you sober up.
lol, didnt say that I liked the woman, its just that there are worse alternatives out there, and somehow they are coming to the frontlines?
WTF is going on with politics anyway? Whats with the obama thing? Is it not painfully obvious that the guy seriously needs a few more years of expirience before you can consider him a viable candidate regardless of your idealogical leanings? I mean this is the guy whom on one hand wants to disarm the US nuclear arsenal, and on the other considers nuking pakistan. Fine for conversation, but I expect something abit more in depth from a future leader. And I would still take this guy over "no more energy use in 10 years" huckabee.

the '04 choices were pretty bad, and todays are worse. Its like the whole game got knocked off kilter. Maybe its because the atributes by which we select our leaders have absolutely nothing to do with they attributes needed to actually, you know, lead. So we look for the slickest personality possible, but one that isnt too slick, i.e. kerry, or romney.

Maybe the conspiracy theorists are right, and presidents have no power what so ever. That would explain this mess.

And lastly, why are we having the choice/life debate as one of the central issues in politics. Official policy hasnt changed sagnificantly in something like 35 years now, and it isnt going to change during the next term.



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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vash
lol, didnt say that I liked the woman, its just that there are worse alternatives out there, and somehow they are coming to the frontlines?
WTF is going on with politics anyway? Whats with the obama thing? Is it not painfully obvious that the guy seriously needs a few more years of expirience before you can consider him a viable candidate regardless of your idealogical leanings? I mean this is the guy whom on one hand wants to disarm the US nuclear arsenal, and on the other considers nuking pakistan. Fine for conversation, but I expect something abit more in depth from a future leader. And I would still take this guy over "no more energy use in 10 years" huckabee.

the '04 choices were pretty bad, and todays are worse. Its like the whole game got knocked off kilter. Maybe its because the atributes by which we select our leaders have absolutely nothing to do with they attributes needed to actually, you know, lead. So we look for the slickest personality possible, but one that isnt too slick, i.e. kerry, or romney.

Maybe the conspiracy theorists are right, and presidents have no power what so ever. That would explain this mess.

And lastly, why are we having the choice/life debate as one of the central issues in politics. Official policy hasnt changed sagnificantly in something like 35 years now, and it isnt going to change during the next term.
If you think there are worse alternatives than Hillary, then I don't think you've studied her enough. Irrespective of her politics, she is the most dangerous type of politician because she's power-hungry and a hot tempered control freak. Anybody in the race would be better than her, even kooky Kucinich. If she does make it in, I guarantee Congress will flip back to a heavy Republican majority in 2010. That would actually be good for the country. A big part of Bill Clinton's success was butting heads with Congress, shutting down the gov't, and leaving people alone to live their lives.

I honestly don't think that Obama can win a national election at this point, no matter what he promises. If he wins the Democratic nomination, I think whatever Republican will win - though not by a lot.

The problem the candidates today is that too many people are looking for someone who will do the most for them rather than who will do the best for the country. People want "health care" and free tuition, targeted tax cuts, and higher taxes for the "rich." Too few people want a president who will leave them alone so they can live their lives. This brings candidates who are willing to govern by poll rather than principle to the forefront. The general public's desire for the government to take care of them will be the downfall of the United States if it continues.

The life/choice debate continues because it is based in religion, which is based upon control. Although mainstream Christianity has been forced to give up most control in the lives of those outside their religion, don't think they wouldn't ban abortion if they had the chance. However, abortion will always be legal for the life of the U.S. (until we are under Sharia law). The abortion supporters view any type of regulation of abortion as a potential threat to all abortion so they fight it vehemently, even if it makes sense, as in the case of partial-birth abortion. The NRA should take lessons from them.

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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 08:08 AM
 
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The NRA has taken lessons from them. They fight otherwise reasonable legistlation on the premise that its a step closer to total gun control. We've been over this before.

The thing about hillary (And I really hesitate to show her any kind of support), is that a presidents largest influence on policy is in the cabinet the appoint. There is no question the HRC is well connected to the "inside crowd", and will most likely appoint people to positions of power who are well expirienced in the ways of washington. Also, her husband will likely have a great deal to say as to whom gets what position. Now, those appointments will likely carry a different idealogical leaning than I do, but they are not likely to take steps that are drastic departure from what we expect out of ussual. In other words, it might be bad, but its not likely to be unussually bad, whatever concilation that is.

I dont see much of a point in discussing healthcare and tax the rich schemes with you, since we already see eye to eye



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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-09-2008, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vash
Whats with the obama thing? Is it not painfully obvious that the guy seriously needs a few more years of expirience before you can consider him a viable candidate regardless of your idealogical leanings? I mean this is the guy whom on one hand wants to disarm the US nuclear arsenal, and on the other considers nuking pakistan.
Well, we elected GW TWICE, didn't we? He had zero in foreign affairs (the crucial reason I voted against him) yet still got elected. At least as a senator they are involved in some level of international affairs.

And the nuke thing is untrue. He explained it on a talk show. Someone had suggested using nukes and he pointed them to some top generals who explained the fallacy of such a move. Yeah, it was a back and forth, but as is often the case for all candidates, an out-of-context newsie report.

I want to see Obama and McCain get the nods if only to b-slap both Parties' leadership into reality.

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Last edited by kanwisch; 01-09-2008 at 04:33 AM.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-09-2008, 04:43 AM
 
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Originally posted by kanwisch
Well, we elected GW TWICE, didn't we? He had zero in foreign affairs (the crucial reason I voted against him) yet still got elected. At least as a senator they are involved in some level of international affairs.

And the nuke thing is patently false. He explained it on a talk show. Someone had suggested using nukes and he pointed them to some top generals who explained the fallacy of such a move. Yeah, it was a back and forth, but as is often the case for all candidates, an out-of-context newsie report.

I want to see Obama and McCain get the nods if only to b-slap both Parties' leadership into reality.
GW had a zero in foreign affairs prior to becoming president or while? I'm of the opinion that he tried to do the right things in most of the foreign arena (north korea being the most notable exception) but his biggest failure was in that he couldtn convince people as to why those were the right things to do. I know that you will disagree with me, but you have to note that a great many people are of the same (perhaps wrong) opinion as I am.

Has obama explained the whole "lets get rid of the us nuke arsenal" quote, or does he stand by it? That seems awfully naive.

From the republican side, I'm cool with either mccain, giuliani, or thompson. mccain has the faingold thing going against him, but everyone is allowed a mistake. I havent seen much of anything I really didnt like about giuliani, but perhaps I didnt look hard enough (I'm not bothered by the however many wives he had, i dont think his personal life is any of my buisness). I disagree with thompson on immigration, frankly I think his approach is naive (people who have come here illegally made the decision that being a second class person in this country is much better than being a full citizen in theirs, and thus unlikely to just leave if things get a slight touch tighter) but on most everything else he says seems alright. I think two of those three (one as pres one as vp) would make a very strong ticket. Romney seems capable, but its abit hard to trust him. I think I said enough about huckabee. an ron paul is a freaking loonie, and reminds me of every backwoods conspiracy theorist I've ever met.



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