Rumsfeld gets PwNT - Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-22-2004, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
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Rumsfeld gets PwNT

Not trying to start another political thread, but it's definately funny to see someone get caught in a lie and try to play it off like he didn't just say it.
http://www.moveon.org/censure/caughtonvideo/

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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-23-2004, 01:24 AM
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Those guys never cease to amaze!

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-23-2004, 05:09 AM
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Surely someone in politics wouldn't flip flop like that....right Mr. Kerry? Perhaps we could dig a little deeper into it to find out Mr. Rumsfeld's well thought out and insightful reasons for what he said at the time.

Just pointing out that it happens on both sides of the fence. If all we're going to look at is the soundbyte coverage that Dad has so pointedly expressed his distaste for, then why do we get that "well thought out reasons for his actions" spiel when we criticize Kerry for his voting record?

Hindsight is an ugly mother for both sides. In defense of both sides though, they make the best decisions they can based on the information they have at the time. It's easy to go back later and criticize them for it.

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-23-2004, 05:17 AM
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Oh, and just so everyone doesn't think I'm trying to defend Rumsfeld in this particular case, I thought it was a pretty boneheaded move to say that nobody in the administration had ever said anything about an imminent threat. Never say never....

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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-23-2004, 06:09 AM
 
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I said what?

No matter what your political affiliation, you have to admit...it's nice to see them squirm a bit for for a change...lol just the look on his face when they're reading him that quote...hahaha...priceless
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-23-2004, 06:41 AM Thread Starter
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Re: I said what?

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Originally posted by daved
No matter what your political affiliation, you have to admit...it's nice to see them squirm a bit for for a change...lol just the look on his face when they're reading him that quote...hahaha...priceless
That's what I'm saying. It's not that he tried to flip flop on the issue, it's that he lied about the media making it up. Then when they read him the quotes you can see him start to squirm his way out of it. I would have liked to see what went on after that though.

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Originally posted by sidewaysducati
SWIPE THE CARD GRANDMA!!!
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WARNING
If you are reading this then this warning is for you. Every word you read of this useless fine print is another second off your life. Don't you have other things to do? Is your life so empty that you honestly can't think of a better way to spend these moments? Or are you so impressed with authority that you give respect and credence to all who claim it? Do you read everything you're supposed to read? Do you think everything you're supposed to think? Buy what you're told you should want? Get out of your apartment. Meet a member of the opposite sex. Stop the excessive shopping and masturbation. Quit your job. Start a fight. Prove you're alive. If you don't claim your humanity you will become a statistic. You have been warned...... Tyler
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-23-2004, 07:15 AM
 
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I'm following the Presidential race with great interest from up here in Canada...I wish I knew more about the candidates histories, and the US political machine, but I CAN tell you I'm no fan of GBW...it greatly concerns me that the "leader of the free world" has led his war machine into a foreign land based on (what I am convinced he knew were) blatant lies regarding WMD's. Not to say that SH didn't need some ousting, but the way it was done, w/o UN support certainly leaves the US taxpayer holding the bag for an expensive sortie. Yes, the Iraqi people hated SH, and wished he were gone, but now, they are left with what they feel is a US (read: non-Muslim) occupation, a fate perhaps worse than a murderous dictator.

I think what I'm trying to say is there was no easy answer to this situation, but the Bush administration made it seem that a) they just had to go in and make war upon Iraq to oust SH and, b) that they would go in, oust Saddam, rebuild a few houses and some infrastructure, restore order and hand over the reins to the Iraqi people...I think the average American is smarter than the politicians give them credit for...we all know it isn't that easy.

Let us not forget the ever-present oil argument.

Just my

Also, please forgive me if I'm out of line. As a Canadian, I'm not sure I have the right to comment on the US political situation/president. We here in Canada are not without our political problems.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-23-2004, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by daved

Also, please forgive me if I'm out of line. As a Canadian, I'm not sure I have the right to comment on the US political situation/president.
I think anyone anywhere is more than entitled to their opinions, and the board is here to share them.

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We here in Canada are not without our political problems.
I've always heard the expression "If it has tits or tires, it'll give you trouble." I think a similar expression could apply to politicians....the majority of them aren't worth blowing up.

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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-23-2004, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by spicersh
Surely someone in politics wouldn't flip flop like that....right Mr. Kerry? Perhaps we could dig a little deeper into it to find out Mr. Rumsfeld's well thought out and insightful reasons for what he said at the time.
I would agree if this was a broader question like, "Why did you guys have no bid contracts in the 87 billion war funding budget?" There are arguements that could be made to justify that. Sometimes it's the only practical way to do things on the quick. But if you do, you put in controls and audit capability, etc. What is the scope and structure of the contract? Is there anybody watching the store to make sure that only those items that MUST be done expeditiously are included and the rest are left for bidding? That topic could be discussed intelligently for hours and in the course of it, much could be learned. He may make the case for it to reasonable satisfaction or you may discover it's FULL of problems. That scope of a question like that requires in depth review before accurate justification or accusations can be made, unless they refuse to discuss it in depth. Then you're left to your own conclusions as to why. You have to give the opportunity before to judge. Kerry has taken the opportunity to answer his accusers, you're just not likely to have access to that answer on Fox.

Quote:
Originally posted by spicersh
Just pointing out that it happens on both sides of the fence. If all we're going to look at is the soundbyte coverage that Dad has so pointedly expressed his distaste for, then why do we get that "well thought out reasons for his actions" spiel when we criticize Kerry for his voting record?
In the linked case, that wasn't a soundbyte. It was a straightforward question, was very simple, limited scope, and didn't require much discussion, only a straightforward answer because it was so simple. Some items are like that and are one sentence answers. He was asked the straight question and his answer was a lie, proven with his own words. For the life of me, I can't see anything left to discuss, but would be willing to listen. Watch the tape again if you don't see that difference.

In the scenario I outlined above, about no bid contracts, if the question was posed, "Did you have no bid contracts in that budget?" and the reply was, "No", then a very short reply, showing that it was a lie, would end that discussion. The follow up as to "why" could get several hours of discussion started.

As for Kerry, which one do you want to discuss? When charged with voting against the 87 billion budget, Kerry agreed that he did that. No lie. Then, the next logical question is, "Why"? That answer is very revealing. I would pose the same question to Rumsfeld after he lied, "Why"? That answer, too, would be very revealing. I also doubt he will be wanting to discuss that. While there may be several answers, none will be good. It will take an independant investigation to get to the bottom of that one.

C'mon Scott, you're arguing for arguement's sake here. I know you're better than that. You're trying to pull a "Fox News" on us.

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Blind patriotism is worse than no patriotism.

Last edited by Dad; 03-23-2004 at 11:51 AM.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-23-2004, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dad
C'mon Scott, you're arguing for arguement's sake here. I know you're better than that. You're trying to pull a "Fox News" on us.
Well just in case I was not clear, I already said that in this case I wouldn't try to nor would I want to defend Rumsfeld. He got caught with his own words. The question then is did he intentionally lie about it or did he forget what he said? Could be one or the other, could be a mixture of both. I wouldn't say that he is above lying about it, I'm just saying that the video may not be the whole story. Like I said, if someone asks you if you said something, never say never unless you are damn sure of it.

I really wasn't trying to start an argument over this. Just saying that both sides don't always tell the truth. Both sides are full of liars, ya just gotta pick which ones lie in your favor most often.

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