rear brake in corner - Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-30-2007, 08:38 AM Thread Starter
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rear brake in corner

So I'm reading sport riding techniques, when I come across this
Quote:
the rear brake is a great way to shed speed mid corner. It sheds speed without loading the front suspension
Which goes against everything I know.
1. Braking mid corner is a bad idea, since the tires have the least available traction left since most if spent on turning. You are leaned over the farthest mid corner, being the most vulnurable.
2. Front suspension loads from weight transfer from braking forces, not from which brake is applied. It will compress even if the bike is stopped by a brick wall.

So to me the advice seems like a recipe for a high or low side, especially given that the most classic and common of newbie crashes happens when someone applies the rear brake mid corner. Hell, even chopping the throttle mid corner can result in a highside, and that doesnt have nearly the braking power of an actual caliper.

But this is written by someone who knows a great deal more about racing than I do, so what gives?




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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-30-2007, 08:50 AM
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I recently read that same article, and that same exact quote caught me off guard as well. It goes against everything I've read/heard before and also contradicts my own experience. (such as it is)

I've always been told that one should not use the rear brake in the corner. As you said Vash, it seems to be a recipe for a high side. I've always done my corner trail braking with the fronts. I've also experimented using the rear brakes in cornering, and the bike really wants to stand up. Granted, it still wants to stand up a bit when trail braking the fronts, but not nearly as much as with the rear. I find that trail braking the fronts is much more controllable.

However, I'll leave this topic to some of the more experienced racers on the board.

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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-02-2008, 08:39 PM
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I am reading the book called "Twist of The Wrist II". After I finish this book I am planning to read the book you have.

Twist of the wrist underlines body position and throttle control. It tells you not to panic (survival reactions) and not to use brakes in the curve.

There is a 40/60 weight distribution. Rear tire handles 60 percent and front tire handles 40 percent of the total weight on a normal cruising. The book says you want to ride it in a harmony so that you keep that distribution rates as it is. If you brake in the curve and more of the weight is transferred to the front, then you are more likely have a highside.

On the other hand body position is important and I believe there is a way that you can use the rear brakes professionally. My book has a chapter about "how to slide" and I haven't come to that chapter yet since I am trying to practice every point in the book. But I'll take a look at it and let you know if you want.

My book talks about Survival Reactions a lot. It says, once the rider loses his confidence, or panics in a situation, he makes more mistakes and that causes him accidents. For example, you are in a curve, you are a little more faster than you've expected and you've scared since you think you won't be able to make it. So you panic and push the brakes so hard and lock the tires where you could prepare a good body position, throttle down slowly and survive.

Critical thinking is the point. And my book has a lot to say about critical thinking. I think there are seconds or split of a second where you can use rear brakes at the right point to get the right result.

If you ever ask that what confidence has to do with braking in the mid section of a curve, i would say it effects the power balance on a bike. We distribute our weight in the wrong direction when we panic, push the brake, lock the tire and crash. If we distribute our weight right and brake accordingly as needed then it becomes something possible to do. IMO.

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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-02-2008, 08:51 PM
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Also in this video, rider brakes, slides but doesn't let go the bike and he doesn't panic and survives. I love this video since its a good example for critical thinking. He could fall but he didn't let go.

http://www.gaskrank.eu/tv/racing/fae...nicht-1469.htm

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 04:14 AM Thread Starter
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In the video the guy isnt using his rear brake. In fact, his foot is clear off the peg. He did catch some sand or something like that earlier in the turn, which is where he got in trouble. Still one spectacular recovery.


Both the twists are pretty good books, but they are becoming dated in some departments. There is nothing adressing slipper clutches and their effects on riding. The biggest difference is with the riding position of some of the newer bike, where you sit in the bike instead of on (gixxers and R6's come to mind) it really changes the body positioning game quiet a bit. Still, they are good books, if you can get past the authors tone, just dont be suprised when the lesson doesnt seem to flow right when riding one of the newer bikes.




-- Thats Just The Way I Roll

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are".
-—Theodore Roosevelt

"In war there is no substitute for victory."
---Douglas MacArthur, General

"Beware of those in whom the urge to punish is strong".
---Johann Wolfgang Goethe


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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-11-2008, 10:04 AM
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I've read Performance Riding Techniques - The MotoGP Manual of track riding skills recently. It definately has the most up to date information out there and is a pretty good read. I'd definately reccomend it. Its got quotes from a lot of the top riders as to why they do what they do which is really interesting.

Basically what it says is that the rear brake is used only to stabalize the bike on corner entry and sometimes to the apex but never to actually slow the bike down.

http://www.amazon.com/Performance-Ri...0077955&sr=8-1

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-11-2008, 10:07 AM
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-08-2008, 11:04 PM
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Actually using the rear brake in the corner for scrubbing speed is okay. You want to get your braking done as soon as possible and get back on the gas. The rear brake can also help you to keep from spinning up the rear tire.

If you are not done braking before the apex of the turn, you have come in way to hot. You should actually be back on the gas at the apex or a little before the apex. It is not a lot of gas, more of a maintenance type throttle until the bike starts to stand up. As your bike stands up, you give it more gas.

You do not use the rear brake like you do the front, you only use it to help scrub speed. In other words, do not clamp on it like you would the front.

This info is for the track.

Bill Johnson
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