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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-29-2005, 03:16 PM Thread Starter
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getting it down

ok, so I've participated in about a half dozen track days now and I've had a blast during every one. I'm a fast "B" rider or a slow "A" rider (depending on the group on that day) but, are you ready for this? I've only had my knee down once!! ( I'll pause until the laughter stops...) Now, I know thats not the MOST important thing in the world, but it's something I've been working on and failing miserably at! I got it down during my 3rd track day for the second half of the day, but not since then. So ,I'd like to hear some tips or advice on gettin it down!
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-30-2005, 06:11 PM
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My #1 tip is...don't worry bout it....work on things that make you comfy at speed, i.e. being SMOOTH...gettin on the gas early in the turns...and being SMOOTH....staying Relaxed no matter what...and being SMOOTH...

Look, sounds like your doing something right, so why mess it up "trying " to get a knee down, plus w/o any other info..or pic's, it's kinda hard to say what you need to do, or not to do..

I'm guessing your up around No. Cali..? who ya doin track days with..? Zoom Zoom, SST, ect...at thunderhill, buttonwillow..ect..?

If your already "hangin off" i.e. 1/2 of you rear end off the seat, you may Rotating around the gas tank, try keeping your upper body at more of a 90 degree angle to the bike while hangin off, and kissin the mirror.. sorta like Aaron Yates is doing here..
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-30-2005, 11:40 PM
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90 degree on upper body... do you mean the extensions of the arms and bent elbow leading to biceps and shoulders should form something like a 90 degree angle, putting the rider's weight on the front as possible, and then hang off? thanks. should the head or peripheral vision be tilted to match the angle of the lean or the eyes should look on straight ahead as horizontally as possible?

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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-01-2005, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
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Talking

Thanks Hammer 4, my track days have been with Keigwins & PTT @ Thunderhill. Funny you should say "kiss the mirror", the time I got my knee down was the day a friend was with me at the track and he was helping me work on it and said to "kiss the mirror"! It definately helped that day and I've tried to follow that advice every time since then. It's just that when I did get it down it felt so natural and exciting that I want to get that feeling again. But I hear you, I should work on being SMOOTH and comfortable on the bike and things will fall into place. Thanks again.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-01-2005, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Z_Fanatic
90 degree on upper body... do you mean the extensions of the arms and bent elbow leading to biceps and shoulders should form something like a 90 degree angle, putting the rider's weight on the front as possible, and then hang off? thanks. should the head or peripheral vision be tilted to match the angle of the lean or the eyes should look on straight ahead as horizontally as possible?

Well, most likely you won't be exactly at 90 degrees, but you don't want to spin around the tank, i.e. so that you upper body is all twisted and your lower body is pointing to the outside of the turn...is about the best way I can describe it...here's a pic of Rossi, taken fron the inside of a turn, notice that from his legs to his shoulders are fairly inline.

In that position, it almost forces you to relax and lighten your grip on the bars, if you feel uncomfortable at first iding like that, take it slow at first, cuzz if your head is looking WAY through the turns, and is Kissing the mirros, it'll seem like your inches from the tarmac, which might seem wierd at first, but you et use to it, and it also make it feel as though your not going as fast, so you tend to be relaxed more..
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-01-2005, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hammer 4
...here's a pic of Rossi, taken fron the inside of a turn, notice that from his legs to his shoulders are fairly inline.

In that position, it almost forces you to relax and lighten your grip on the bars...
As a rider who hasn't reached the "knee-drop" stage, I look at that photo and think, "I'd be holding on for dear life!"



Z_Fanatic - An uncle of mine, who used to race cars, always taught me that, when you tilt your head, you lose depth perception. As a result, I tilt my head away from the turn, trying to keep it as vertical as possible.

Maybe I'm doing this wrong????




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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-01-2005, 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by cookeetree
As a rider who hasn't reached the "knee-drop" stage, I look at that photo and think, "I'd be holding on for dear life!"



Z_Fanatic - An uncle of mine, who used to race cars, always taught me that, when you tilt your head, you lose depth perception. As a result, I tilt my head away from the turn, trying to keep it as vertical as possible.

Maybe I'm doing this wrong????
If your tilting your head away from the turn, you then feel like the lean angle is far greater than what it really is, and possibly that it seems like your going lots faster than you really are..

Here's one Important thing that looking way throuh the turn, and keeping your head low does, ..1 it it slows things down..somewhat, as your looking way through the turn, you can antisipate problems much earlier, that's a Good thing, also it takes your attention away from some of the Survival reactions that may be holding you back..

2...It keeps you on the right line, so your NOT doing mid turn steering corrections..tha's a bad thing..Mmmkay..

For me, with my back problems it's hard to get into the low / forward position..so in the right handed turns, I'm moe upright than the leftys..if you don't have any phisycal limitations, the low / forward position should be easy to do over time..

Once again, start out slow, and work up to speed..keeping the other important things in mind, be SMOOTH..on the gas, on the brakes and shifting gears, and shifting your weight..

Pick a line, and stick to it..and lastly, you know, that if your just startin out doin track days, that your entry speed is prolly on the slow side, relax, tip it in, stay relaxed and go with it...ALWAYS looking as far up the track as possible..LIGHt On the Bars...you'll make it...

Do these, and I betcha you get faster in a fairly short period of time..

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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-01-2005, 02:55 PM
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Thanks for the info.




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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-01-2005, 08:29 PM
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Thanks a lot for the great info. My problem is as you said, getting the light bar feel. Well that is easy to accomplish when I am relatively upright, but with some lean, it seems like I am hanging on to the bars. How do I keep the body weight in itself or on the pegs and not transfer it to the bars? I read that to know what stability really does is I should be able to let go of the bars during a turn/lean and keep my body in that position, and the bike should keep on its course. Instead, I happen to hang on for dear life. Another problem I notice that during fast left turns, steering becomes heavy compared to my right turn. I'm probably putting more bar inputs to cancell my turn or body positioning horrible, or since I have to keep a good throttle control with the right arm, left turn keeps me guessing and I can't maintain a good line. And it's usually worse with traffic coming out of the opposite side, since I can't get close to the inside line. My right turns are significantly better. Thanks again.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-01-2005, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Z_Fanatic
Thanks a lot for the great info. My problem is as you said, getting the light bar feel. Well that is easy to accomplish when I am relatively upright, but with some lean, it seems like I am hanging on to the bars. How do I keep the body weight in itself or on the pegs and not transfer it to the bars? I read that to know what stability really does is I should be able to let go of the bars during a turn/lean and keep my body in that position, and the bike should keep on its course. Instead, I happen to hang on for dear life. Another problem I notice that during fast left turns, steering becomes heavy compared to my right turn. I'm probably putting more bar inputs to cancell my turn or body positioning horrible, or since I have to keep a good throttle control with the right arm, left turn keeps me guessing and I can't maintain a good line. And it's usually worse with traffic coming out of the opposite side, since I can't get close to the inside line. My right turns are significantly better. Thanks again.

Have you read Kieth Codes...twist of the wrist II..? if not, pick up a copy...it addres's all those questions and more.

to answer your question..in order to be light on the bars, you need an anchor i.e. something to keep you in the saddle, what I and alot of other riders do is to buy some Stomp Gip..that's placed on the gas tank, this allows the rider to grab the tank with your knees, the stomp grip holds your knees in place..that way you transfer some your weight down lower, and ar able to keep a light grip on the bars..although the stomp grip isn't required, for old guys like me, it makes things easier..

Also, once your turn is started, smoothly roll on the gas, this will settle the bike, and allow you to run a tighter line, as a modern sportbike like a weight ratio of about 40/60..getting on the gas early makes your bike turn much better, be Smooth. Not applying gas, or staying on the brakes, and loading the frontend, will run the bike wide in most cases...as Donnie says, get on the gas to turn and burn..

As you experiment with these techniques, try this...after your intial turn in, try weighting the outside peg..in other words, use the outside peg as a pressure point, you'll find that at max lean, bumps and ripples will not effect your bike as much..


How do you turn..? turn in point early, or late...do you sorta tip it over, or do you quick flick the bike..? If you do lazy turns, and your turn in point is to early, you'll tend to run wide, a late turnin point, while Flicking the bike over quickly will keep your line.

As a note..all this info is in Codes book, all I'm doin is relaying it to you..the techniques work, if you give em a chance...and NO I'm not promoting his book, I've had my copy for years, and have use these methods to go faster...and stay crash free at the track..

gettin on the gas early, i.e. as soon as your off the brakes, takes some getting use to, you have to Trust the bike, and your skills..all this stuff also can apply to street riding too...

Side note: if you use you legs to ride as you should, they'll be soe as hell after a good day of riding at the track...

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